Coopers difinative recipe help.

[Clay Ed]

Hello folks,

I know this isnt the done thing but i need help.

Would any one be willing to post a difinative recipe for coopers stout kit.

If the admin want to move it into an appropriate thread i of course have no probs.

Ive read the various threads on the forum but i am going round in circles.

I have:

Coopers stout kit
black treacle
beer enhancer
granulated suger
muscavado sugar
spray malt

Cheers in advance.

Clay Ed.

 

[BruinTuns]

I just asked a very similar question here: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17817&page=14
So I'll be watching your thread with interest.
Like you, I've read various threads and reviews on this kit (including the legendary 'Ditch's' thread) and I have to say I don't think there's any 'definitive' recipe as so much depends on personal taste. An example of this is how some brewers have reported delicious results using molasses and/or dark muscovado sugar, when others have stated that these additions resulted in an unpalatably bitter 'twang'.
Black treacle seems to be less contentious, i.e. fewer complaints about the results, but even so there are still a few.
I brewed my first Coopers Stout fairly unadventurously with 1kg BKE, 250g liquid malt extract and 250g white sugar for a slightly higher abv, which came out at 5% with perhaps a further .5% from the priming sugar. It's currently conditioning now.
I love stout and this kit gets nothing but good reviews so I'll be doing more of them, tweaking each as I go, possibly getting more adventurous as confidence grows, until I think I've got it as good as it's going to get.
For the next one I plan on:
1 Coopers Stout
!kg Young's BKE
1 Tin Treacle
250g Demerara
250g Holland&Barrett Malt Extract(?)

I may up the demerara slightly as ideally I'd like to hit around 6% abv but if no one can tell me from experience that this would work then I'll proceed more cautiously.
A popular adddition seems to be a 1.5kg tin of Coopers Dark LME. The results are reportedly divine but the cost of this is around £9.50 plus delivery which would total more than the cost of the kit so I'm going to see what can be achieved more economically first.

 

[Clay Ed]

Cheers,

Bruin cheers for the post. i think im gonna wing it put over suger by 250 g in the fv, so

500g beer enhancer
250g muscovado
250g black treale
either 250g of granulated sugar or spray malt.

Im going to set my strap at about 22-24 deg and then add yeast. When its done its thing im bottling as my pressure keg is in use with Nelson revenge.

If someone can see one of the biggest mistakes in history taking place please intervene.

Cly ed.

 

[BruinTuns]

That looks good to me, should get you about 4.5% abv. Not hugely potent but I'm guessing you don't want it to be?
My only suggestion from reading around would be to avoid using both the treacle AND dark muscovado.
Some of the posts I've read are by people who felt that even a half tin of treacle was 'overpowering' and unless you know that you'll like it from a previous brew the dark muscovado may just be overdoing the dark fermentables a bit.
Maybe stay on the side of caution for this one and tweak the next more adventurously. I've not read of anyone not loving this brew after playing it safe with a good old 1kg of enhancer and it would be a shame to spoil your enjoyment by leaping too soon into the unknown. Just my 2p...

 

[Clay Ed]

" I've not read of anyone not loving this brew after playing it safe with a good old 1kg of enhancer and it would be a shame to spoil your enjoyment by leaping too soon into the unknown. Just my 2p..."

Sounds good to me. Ill give it a go. 1kg of enhancer and 250 muscavado.

I do like it a bit stronger so could i brew it short? to maybe 21 instaed of 22.:pray::pray:

Thanks for the advice, just what i was looking for

 

[BruinTuns]

Yes, sorry, forgot to suggest that. Brewing short is one of the best and simplest ways of upping the abv slightly and giving the finished beer extra body and flavour. I brewed my srout to 21l.
Having said that I'm sure brewing short must work better with some kits than with others but I believe many of the lads do it as a matter of course and I've not read of any negative experiences.
Another thing you could do is add an additional 250g or so of humble white table sugar. In a stout kit brewed short this small an amount will make virtually no difference to flavour or body and will increase the final abv by another .5% or so.

 

[Fil]

dont waste money on beer enhancer, its just the same as white sugar, iirc sucrose breaks down into dextrose and fructose, your saving the yeast a single step, so your brew may finish a few hours sooner with brew enhancer but it wont improve flavour or mouth feel or enhance in any way, its not named well..

if enhancing a kit imho you cant go wrong using malt extract, boil it for the break for a good 20-30mins, and off you go.

again just my opinion, but sugar white brown or inbetween is good for priming where the volume is so small the flavor impact isnt a concern.

 

[Fil]

250g Holland&Barrett Malt Extract(?)

NO NO NO!! dont use this it will ruin the beer its not the same quality as used for brewing

 

[BruinTuns]

Well I tried my first stout today and it was delicious, Holland & Barrett included! This is after only a week of bottle conditioning, so I have high hopes for a delicious Christmas beer :p
I did a lot af asking before using the H&B stuff and, whilst opinions do differ, the vast majority who used it said they had no problems with it.
Anyone reading this and thinking of trying it do what I did, google around the subject and decide for yourself. I only used 250g in my Coopers stout but you'll read of others who regularly use two or even three 450g jars of the stuff per brew and wouldn't use anything else. I'd simply suggest caution at first.
Fil, as I'm sure you know, beer kit enhancer is 50% malt and 50% brewing sugar (dextrose). If you're getting comparable results with white table sugar then more power to you, but you're the first brewer I've come across who doesn't report significantly better results (body and flavour) when using BKE.
However I'm too new at this to be in a position to disagree from experience, so, on your recommendation I shall maybe try a white sugar only brew sometime in the new year.

 

[willycoolj]

Have made a coopers stout with 1 tin treacle,500g dark malt,250g soft dark brown sugar, will be trying a bottle on Friday night, will let you know how it tastes :

 

[Clay Ed]

OK

so ive got my enhancer so may as well use it.

For future ref whgat sort of malt extract should i get and where is the best place for dark malt?

Am i ok suing spray malt and what does it do? is it a form of sugar?

Cheers again

Clay Ed.

 

[BruinTuns]

I don't think that malt is actually classed as a sugar but it does contain a lot of sugar and brewers refer to it as a 'fermentable', like dextrose, honey, treacle etc.
As I understand it pure sugar (white or brown) ferments out almost completely which, if it were used exclusively, would give a strong but thin and very dry alcoholic drink but it wouldn't be beer.
Malt on the other hand doesn't ferment completely and the unfermented percentage gives beer its body and flavour, along with a certain sweetness which is counterbalanced by the bitterness of the hops.
I was surprised by Fil's disapproval of bew kit enhancer (BKE) as I know it's a very popular choice. The formula can vary slightly from brand to brand but they are usually a 50/50 mixture of dried malt extract (also referred to as DME or spraymalt) and dextrose, sometimes called brewing sugar.
Malt extract is available from any homebrew shop, online or high street. I believe it's available as extra light, light, medium, dark and extra dark. It comes as either a syrupy liquid (LME) or a dy powder which is LME that has been dried. AFAIK there is no other difference between them and I've never read that one is better than the other. Some brewers prefer the convenience of DME, others find that it 'clumps' when being added to the wort and use LME. There may be other considerations of which I'm unaware.
The Holland&Barrett malt extract to which I referred earlier is classed as 'food grade' rather than 'brewing grade' and won't likely be stocked by a homebrew shop anyway. Some brewers swear by it, others the opposite. Due to Fil's warning I think I'll make my next stout without it and use treacle instead to compare.

 

[Slid]

I just asked a very similar question here: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17817&page=14
So I'll be watching your thread with interest.
Like you, I've read various threads and reviews on this kit (including the legendary 'Ditch's' thread) and I have to say I don't think there's any 'definitive' recipe as so much depends on personal taste.

A popular adddition seems to be a 1.5kg tin of Coopers Dark LME. The results are reportedly divine but the cost of this is around £9.50 plus delivery which would total more than the cost of the kit so I'm going to see what can be achieved more economically first.

First, apologies for editing the post!

If you live near a Wilko's, you might try substituting a Dark Velvet Stout can at 1.5kg for the Coopers Dark LME.

Done this with 1 kg table sugar to 27L and been very pleased indeed with the results, but acknowledge that this is basically unimaginitve compared to the many alternatives.

Especially attractive option at 25% off Homebrew, when the whole brew costs just over £19.

 

[Clay Ed]

OK

im on it, just got to clear my FV of some wine thats nearly finished fermenting then the stout is having it.:clap:

im being optamistic but i would love it to be ready for crimbo. we'll have to see. I want to start it Sunday hopefully after 4-5 days it will be ready for bottling on the 11-12 dec. That leaves 10-12 conditioning.:hmm:

Will let you all know how it goes and thanks for all the help.:drink:

 

[BruinTuns]

Slid, thanks for the Wilko's idea, I hadn't thought of that. If I had I might have been concerned that the hops from two kits would end up making it too bitter but with your recommendation I might give it a try.
As for 'unimaginative', after reading that thread at the other place where they throw in evrtything from squid ink to coal dust the simpler the better for me..
Got my second one off this afternoon. Brewed short to 21 litres again.
1 Coopers Stout kit
1 kg BKE
1 Tin black treacle
250g white sugar
250g demerara
250g dextrose.
That's a lot of fermentables, and I hope I haven't overdone it. (Tbh when I added the demerara I forgot that I'd already added the white sugar )
SG was 1058 which (bit of a guess) should end up around 7% abv ish.
Good luck with yours Clay Ed.

 

[Clay Ed]

Cheers BruinTuns,

That sound like a lot of sugar but i suppose if i understand correctly the BKE is 50/50 so infact you have got 1250g of fermentable plus the treacle.
Is it a 200g or 400g tin?

Sounds like yours will be a reet head banger hope it works out.


Clayhead

 

[Slid]

No worries with over hopping with 2x Stout kits. Makes a "big" beer IMO.

The only beer kit I ever heard any complaints with amount of bittering hops is the Coopers English Bitter, which uses Pride of Ringwood hops for the bittering.

 

[BruinTuns]

I like a big beer, will definitely do a two kit brew in the new year. Timely advice on the Coopers Bitter, I just ordered one in the Tesco sale. Maybe I'll use extra malt instead of BKE ro try to tame the bitterness a bit..

Clay Ed, it was a 450g treacle tin. It won't be ready for some while yet but I'll post my verdict on the results in a couple of months.
I bottled my first one on day 10 (though I reckon it was probably 'finished' a few days earlier) and it tasted very nice just four days later, two weeks from starting.
If you manage to get yours off tomorrow (Sunday) then it should certainly be drinkable for Crimbo. Good luck with it.

 

[Clay Ed]

Cheers again BruinTuns,

well i was a few days late got it on last night (Wed). Had to wait for the wine to finish. I definitely need some more FV's.

200g of spray malt
250g of muscovado
500g of beer enhancer
150g of granulated sugar.

i chickened out on the treacle.

I started with 2 ltrs of boiling water and tipped everything in.
i then used hot (very) tap water to rinse out can 2lts.
I gave it a good shake then added 16 ltrs of cold water.

This brought the temp down to approx 18 deg, obviously not quite high enough for the yeast. i wanted to brew short to 21 ltrs so i added 1 ltr boiling water and got the strap on (heat). i manbaged to get it to 20deg.

It is now going off like frog escaping a french chef.

Will lkeep you posted.

cheers every one. And merry crimbo.:drunk:

 

[Clay Ed]

Well heres an update on the stout.

Its bloody brilliant.

Brewed as descirbed in my last post. It did take 8 days to stop fermenting after a fast start. It was in my utility room with heat strap at about 24 deg.

I primed the brew with 90g of normal sugar dissolved in boiling water, gave a good stir and bottled. left it 6 days and tried 1 on crimbo day and it was fine. Nice taste not too gassy and a bit of a kick.

Upon opening it give a pleasing hiss and pours really nice giving a good head which lasts.

Tried a coupke on new years eve and it was even better! Thre second one i popped a shot of port in and woosh what a belter.

Cheers for all your advice.