Culturing Proper Job Yeast.

[RoomWithABrew]

Slightly different, multiplying yeast or dividing to get more cells is aerobic needing oxygen.
Alcohol production takes over once colony size is increased and that doesn't need oxygen.
H20 + C6H12O6(glucose) + yeast and nutrients makes C2H5OH.
In very simple unbalanced terms!!

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

All interesting stuff and I'll probably be a bit more careful next time. But it's done, 24 litres of Proper Job, AG kit from BrewUk, in the fermenter and the bottle of frothy yeast starter pitched this morning.
Fingers crossed!

 

[An Ankoù]

All interesting stuff and I'll probably be a bit more careful next time. But it's done, 24 litres of Proper Job, AG kit from BrewUk, in the fermenter and the bottle of frothy yeast starter pitched this morning.
Fingers crossed!

You need plenty of headspace with this yeast, or leave the lid a little loose. It seems to ferment out in about three days.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

As an aside, this is a nice thread on how to work with yeast at home, pouring plates etc :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/pouring-wort-agar-plates-fail.702658/#post-9315769

So would you say that an Erlenmeyer flask with a bung & airlock would be acceptable for building starters up?
Only ask as I just ordered a bung & airlock for my flask a couple of days ago, but recent reading was leading me to believe oxygen needed to enter the flask, thus negating it.

Yeah, it's fine, I'd pressure cook them if you can.

Once oxygen is depleted, yeast move from the growth phase into the fermentation phase and stop multiplying. But if you're trying to actively grow yeast, you want them to have as much oxygen as they can get

There's more than enough oxygen in the average flask/bottle as long as you're not filling it brim-full, I normally have mine about 2/3 full, certainly in the early stages of recovering yeast. Remember when you're harvesting, you're dealing with relatively few cells, your priority is avoiding infection. The balance tips a bit once you've got say 250ml of dense cell culture but before then you really don't need to worry about a lack of oxygen and you do need to worry about infection.

If you're that worried about it, just dab a (pressure-cooked) cocktail stick in some olive oil and then into your culture - the yeast don't need oxygen to "breathe", they only need it as a chemical building block to build cell membrane components for replication, and the fatty acids in olive oil will replace the need for oxygen in that regard.

But I don't add olive oil to my starters.

 

[Sadfield]

Once oxygen is depleted, yeast move from the growth phase into the fermentation phase and stop multiplying. But if you're trying to actively grow yeast, you want them to have as much oxygen as they can get

It's the same phase, though.

https://byo.com/article/fermentation-time-line/

 

[Braumeister]

At st Austell brewery right now, guy says they add yeast to the bottle for carbonation, so it’s not really what it was brewed with. Unfortunately he didn’t know which yeast they use though.

 

[An Ankoù]

Inspired by this thread and using the very poorest of practice, I've poured the dregs of a couple of 33s of Carlesberg unfiltered into a flask of wort just out of a sense of sheer badness. To be sure the beer was poured off the previous evening and the caps pushed back in place until the morning, which is not the best way of doing things. Nevertheless, something is stirring in there and I'll have to get the old Fisher Price microscope out before I entrust it to a beer. Nothing ventured nothing gained and faint heart never won fair maid as the actress said to the Bishop.

 

[Braumeister]

I want to give this a try, I poured a bottle of St Austell Hicks tonight, it says it’s bottle conditioned but I can’t see any yeast or sediment at the bottom of that bottle at all. Is that expected and you are basically cultivating from an inch of beer that might have a tiny amount of suspended yeast?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I want to give this a try, I poured a bottle of St Austell Hicks tonight, it says it’s bottle conditioned but I can’t see any yeast or sediment at the bottom of that bottle at all. Is that expected and you are basically cultivating from an inch of beer that might have a tiny amount of suspended yeast?

Sometimes the yeast is packed down on the bottom of the bottle and adherent. You need to give the dregs a really good swirl to get any yeast cells off the bottom.
Of course your bottle should be a fairly clean vessel, so you can add 50 to 100ml of 1.030 wort with yeast nutrient ( having boiled it for ten minutes and cooled it) to the bottle and cover the lid, agitate it regularly and after 24 hours or so add to a bigger volume of sterile wort in a more traditional vessel.
Some bottle conditioning yeasts are not the brewing yeasts!

 

[Braumeister]

Yes thanks @RoomWithABrew. My question was more what to do if there’s no obvious yeast at the bottom of the bottle, proceed anyway or find another bottle? @An Ankoù @Little Rock Brewing could you see obvious sediment in the bottles you used?

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Yes thanks @RoomWithABrew. My question was more what to do if there’s no obvious yeast at the bottom of the bottle, proceed anyway or find another bottle? @An Ankoù @Little Rock Brewing could you see obvious sediment in the bottles you used?

Yep, definitely a little in the bottom of the Proper Job. I did put it in the fridge for 2 days (upright!). Then poured really carefully.
The brew is still bubbling nicely in the fermenter too.

 

[An Ankoù]

Yes thanks @RoomWithABrew. My question was more what to do if there’s no obvious yeast at the bottom of the bottle, proceed anyway or find another bottle? @An Ankoù @Little Rock Brewing could you see obvious sediment in the bottles you used?

Yes.

 

[clive007]

Sometimes the yeast is packed down on the bottom of the bottle and adherent. You need to give the dregs a really good swirl to get any yeast cells off the bottom.
Of course your bottle should be a fairly clean vessel, so you can add 50 to 100ml of 1.030 wort with yeast nutrient ( having boiled it for ten minutes and cooled it) to the bottle and cover the lid, agitate it regularly and after 24 hours or so add to a bigger volume of sterile wort in a more traditional vessel.
Some bottle conditioning yeasts are not the brewing yeasts!

Am I correct in thinking that the dregs from a pub cask of Proper Job would be ideal ?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Am I correct in thinking that the dregs from a pub cask of Proper Job would be ideal ?

Yes, of course.
But you don't want the dregs if the cask hasn't been drunk quickly and was souring.

Could also just take a sterile container and get several pints fresh and then chill it in fridge pour off the beer and drink it whilst you make your starter.

 

[Braumeister]

I managed to cultivate a decent amount in a flask from a bottle of PJ. Pitched it last night to a Tribute recipe and it’s almost done already! Crazy fast. Dropped from 1.043 to 1.019 in less than 24 hours. It’s bubbling twice a second, never had a yeast this active. I wonder if that’s normal for commercial yeast so they can get beer made quickly.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I've found wlp013 cultured up to at least recommended size rips through ferment. However still leave it to fully finish and tidy up. A lot happens in the beer when the gravity isn't changing much. Watch the temperature as well.

 

[Braumeister]

I've found wlp013 cultured up to at least recommended size rips through ferment. However still leave it to fully finish and tidy up. A lot happens in the beer when the gravity isn't changing much. Watch the temperature as well.

Ok, never used that yeast I might have to give it a try. You mean building it up with a starter?

For sure, not racking until it’s been in the FV for at least a week. Going to move this to a Pressure Barrel for the first time using it, should fit this beer style well. Still a bit warm in the garage though for serving, hopefully it cools down in the next couple of weeks. I do have a fridge for the FV though, that’s set to 20c right now.

 

[Braumeister]

Got the PB in a “Micro Brewery” starter kit, but never used it.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Got the PB in a “Micro Brewery” starter kit, but never used it.

Worth reading the pressure barrel thread
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/pressure-barrels-more-than-you-wanted-to-know.89344/It will give you all the tips you need. PB can be a bit finicky and best to iron this out before you put your beer in.

Regarding the yeast I mentioned above I did make a starter and agree with you that many ale yeasts are actually very quick especially on session strength beers.

 

[Braumeister]

Maybe I over-pitched? Yeast explosion twice now. First time I cleaned it out the blow off tube and bottle of sanitizer that was full of sanitiser/yeast mixture, then cropped all the krausen and put it in a bottle for re-use. Replaced with a standard airlock. Took sample, reading of 1.012 and tastes great, just like Tribute. About 4 hours later I had a look and thick creamy yeast all over the top of the fermenter and the airlock full of yeast. Looked inside and full of krausen again. Cleaned all out and replaced with blow off tube/bottle of sanitiser.

Never seen anything like this before. I should have known though, because the culture I took from the bottle also tried to escape a 2l erlenmayer flask. Probably I need to leave more headroom in the fermenter with this yeast.

Absolutely amazing stuff. I’m thinking I won’t need to often bother with US-05 or packets of Windsor or Nottingham when this yeast is available for free.