How should Woodfordes Wherry wort taste after 7 days?

[jimsx]

Hi - I currently have my first brew kit on the go (Wherry). Seems to be going OK - has been bubbling furiously all week but has now calmed down to fairly minimal activity. I tested today - only 7 days in - & it is on 1014 - 1016 ish (difficult to be accurate on my cheap / diddy hydrometer).

It is still fairly cloudy & I'm probably going to give it another five days or so before moving to bottling.

However - I tried tasting the wort and although it wasn't eye curling, it is very bitter / couldn't really be described as pleasant. I thought I had seen comments on these forums from folks saying how they tried the brew from the FV prior to bottling & it was delicious?

Does this bitter taste imply that something has gone wrong - or is this normal / it just needs a bit more time?

 

[PD]

folks taste perceptions differ. The taste test is just to check that its not putrid and gone bad on you.
Otherwise leave it ALONE till at least 10 days then move it to somewhere cool for another week, then you can have a little taster before bottling or kegging.

 

[jimsx]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Its been in the garage all week / untouched apart from today's test - & has been reasonably cool - do you advise I leave it 2 - 2.5 weeks in total then? Not a problem - I assume I can't leave it "too long" in the FV & it is better to err on the side of more time in FV?

 

[PD]

longer the better, but if leaving it over 2 weeks I'd suggest racking it off the yeast into a clean steralised bucket

 

[morethanworts]

After 7 days it should taste something like beer, though not necessarily like anything you'd normally want a pint of just yet. I've done two of them. After this point, I dry hopped them, but I know the taste at 7 days was distinctly hop-bitter, though still full of yeast and needing several weeks longer, obviously. Experience of around 30 kits has somewhat hardened my tongue at these early, sample-jar tastings :drink: but the Wherry was definitely on the right track at that point. Only time really tells...

Wherrys can take several weeks to clear in the bottle, by the way, but you'll hopefully try to keep your hands off for a good while anyway!

Can be great in the end - 2 months plus!

 

[Antony]

The hop balance will be off at this early stage, and it should taste like like stale beer.

 

[winelight]

I am enjoying an absolutely gorgeous pint of Wherry. Even my partner who doesn't like beer likes this one. OK I modded it a bit by adding hop tea (only with a brief boil) and some LME, but it's definitely the best pint I've ever made. It's also the most carbonated (don't know why that should be - OK I used a full teaspoon instead of half, but I always do that now. It just seems to retain the carbonation better, also a great head).

The biggest problem I find with Wherry is that it goes so fast, you wish you'd made another one instead of whatever it is you did make next.

To answer the question - be patient. This is at least a couple of months old.

 

[Mulled]

I was in the same position as yourself a few weeks ago. Tried my Wherry after a week in the primary when taking the S.G before moving it into the secondary for a couple more weeks under airlock. Yes, the over riding taste of the murky brew is bitterness and not too much else, but i thought it showed promise You really cannot expect too much more in a week old brew :nah: The odd taste along the way that i have had just confirms what we all have read, the beer gets better with age. On another note, i would not be too hasty in getting this to bottle; mine was three weeks old before i bottled it and the beer was clear or near enough as to make no difference.

Happy Brewing :

 

[Drunken Horse]

My first brew was a wherry. Even when I bottled after 2 weeks I thought I'd gone wrong as I thought it tasted awful. Not off but just something I wouldnt get a second of at the bar
After 6 weeks conditioning they couldnt be more different very easy drinking. One thing though if I stick them in the fridge the taste I didnt like comes through more strongly (I do prefer my ales slightly chilled). I just leave them in a cool spot and enjoy them the way they are.

 

[jimsx]

Thanks for all of your replies!

I was just going to make up this first kit "as is" ... but if it can be seriously improved by adding hop tea (?? I don't even know what this is) / liquid malt extract etc - and this is easy for a newbie to do - then any (idiots-guide level) advice gratefully received!

Recommended links to best place to buy ingredients from also useful .... Cheers!

 

[morethanworts]

Thanks for all of your replies!

I was just going to make up this first kit "as is" ... but if it can be seriously improved by adding hop tea (?? I don't even know what this is) / liquid malt extract etc - and this is easy for a newbie to do - then any (idiots-guide level) advice gratefully received!

Recommended links to best place to buy ingredients from also useful .... Cheers!

Easiest way is to sprinkle hop pellets* (I highly recommend 30-40g East Kent Goldings pellets for this) straight onto the top of your beer. You could do that in the primary vessel now, or as soon as you get them, then give it around 5-7 days (by which time they will all have sunk), rack into your primed bottling bucket or keg and job done. You may want to do it in a sanitised secondary vessel instead, while the last few gravity points fall and stabilise.

Dry hopping puts back the aroma and 'freshness' that is often missing in kits, lost in the condensing/reducing boiling process in manufacture.

*Don't put leaf hops straight in without bagging and weighting - only pellets. Pellets sink on their own.

 

[Michael2378]

A couple of the Woodfordes kits take some time to mature I did a Nelson's Revenge a month or so back and it need that conditioning time to mature now it's almost gone so don't lose hope just yet.

 

[jimsx]

Couple more newbie questions ...

I have ordered some hop pellets so will add this in as you suggest: Should I just sprinkle this in immediately to the FV - or is there any advantage to wait (probably for another week or so) until the primary fermentation has stopped first?

You mention about transferring to a new sterile fermentation bucket first - what is the advantage of this?

Also - I have also bought some dried malt extract to improve the flavour - do I just substitute this 1 for 1 as a primer instead of sugar? If so, I may experiment using a few bottles instead of the whole batch.

Thanks again!

 

[morethanworts]

Couple more newbie questions ...

I have ordered some hop pellets so will add this in as you suggest: Should I just sprinkle this in immediately to the FV - or is there any advantage to wait (probably for another week or so) until the primary fermentation has stopped first?

You mention about transferring to a new sterile fermentation bucket first - what is the advantage of this?

Also - I have also bought some dried malt extract to improve the flavour - do I just substitute this 1 for 1 as a primer instead of sugar? If so, I may experiment using a few bottles instead of the whole batch.

Thanks again!

OK...the pellets. Both times I did this with the Wherry I racked to a secondary vessel under airlock (actually, I used 5 DJs the second time, which was just as good though took longer to sink). You'll hear different views on using secondaries full stop, but put it this way, I've never produced worse beer by using them. Have a read around.

Either way, the worst of the yeast activity needs to be out of the way before dry hopping, so after 5 days of primary, certainly 7, you're OK. Sanitise whatever you're weighing them on the scales in and sprinkle them gently on to the surface. If you've got any doubt about your scales, it may be better to estimate visually from the professionally weighed full packet you've received. Check your scales with a few pound coins, which weigh 9.5g each.

You may want to just submerge them slightly with a sanitised spoon. After a day or two, you may still be cursing me because there will likely still be bits on the surface. Give it around 5-7 days and they should all have sunk, if not before, with some just clinging to the edges. Siphon into your bottling bucket, leaving the spent hops and sediment behind. Your beer should now stink of the hops!

I'd forget the DME and save it for another brew. Using it at priming rather than sugar will make precious little difference. If you were going to have used it, you'd add it at the start to beef up the original brew. It's not a 1:1 substitute anyway, as DME can be around only 75% fermentable.

Enjoy :thumb:

 

[jimsx]

Thanks - I'll rack it off to a secondary & get "hopping" tonight.

Time (& football coverage) permitting, I'll probably also get my second brew started - a Woodfordes Nog. Would adding Dark Dried Malt Extract to the FV improve this - & if so, how much do you suggest I add immediately? I'm planning on making it up to 20 Litres (35 pints).

I'm also going to take a different approach with the yeast this time - last time I just chucked it in & stirred it round, which I gather was a pretty numpty thing to do - so I'll be trying the 30 min rehydration this time!

 

[morethanworts]

Nice one. See section 4 on here to rehydrate your yeast.

Two can kits don't really need extra fermentables adding - there'll be plenty of body and flavour as it is. It's only if you really wanted to make a far stronger beer, or weren't happy with the kit as it is. Even then, just brewing short should be enough in most cases.

 

[jimsx]

So ... all went really well last night - I racked off the Wherry to a secondary FV, adding about 40g of Golding pellets. The difference in the smell / taste of the Wherry since I tested on Saturday really is night & day. It's looking good now - so I'll give it another week or so for the pellets to do their stuff / sink ...

Due to the "quality" of the England match last night I also managed to get my Woodfordes Nog kit started. I decided to add 200g of dark malt to it at the outset - giving it a long stir before introducing the rehydrated yeast - as someone on another forum had suggested that they had significantly improved a Wherry kit by doing this. I appreciate that it may not make a great deal of difference, but thought I'd try "playing" a bit. I was a tad concerned as it was still 28 degrees when I added the rehydrated yeast - but it is all happily bubbling away like fury this morning & the temp is nicely down to 19 degrees or so.

Couple of questions - would adding 200g of malt increase the alcohol content significantly (I'm keen to keep it at 4-5%, so may add another 5l of water if it has).

I'm also thinking of adding some "hard brewers liquorice" stick ( http://www.copperkettlehomebrewing.co.u ... ice-sticks ) / ground down to a powder (or as near as I can get) and added to a drop of boiling water - plus maybe some concentrated fruit syrup - in my attempt to get something towards a Badger's "Poachers Choice". If so - when should I do this (I was thinking of adding it at secondary FV stage when I add the golding pellets). Again - am I risking anything with all this mucking about / will end up with an OTT alcohol level? Would a whole hard brewers liquorice stick overpower the flavour of 40 pints (I want the flavour fairly subtle).

This home brew lark really is addictive!

 

[morethanworts]

As a rough rule of thumb, adding 18g of cane sugar (which is 100% fermentable) to 1L would add 1% ABV.

Before doing the calculation, you need to adjust for the fermentability of what you're adding. If it's DME, then let's say 75% of it will ferment.

75% of 200g is 150g

Then use: (extra fermentable sugar added in g / batch size in L) / 18 to give you the rough %ABV you'll be adding.

So if it's a 23L batch, then... (150/23)/18 = 0.36% ABV extra

...roughly

The same calculation goes for ABV added with priming sugars.

 

[jimsx]

So if it's a 23L batch, then... (150/23)/18 = 0.36% ABV extra

Brilliant - thanks morethanworts!

From what you have previously mentioned about adding the hops, am I right to assume that flavours are best added once all the initial fermentation has settled down - as otherwise it is just converted to alcohol at the primary stage so the flavour element is effectively "lost"?

I am guessing that once the yeasties have done their thing at the primary stage, they will have less effect on the flavours added to the secondary FV - and as the sugar in the liquorice / fruit syrup won't be converted it also won't increase the ABV too significantly ... (or am I being stupid here ...?).

Anyone have any experience adding these liquorice sticks - otherwise, I'll just try using a whole one ...

 

[morethanworts]

If fermentable sugar is there at any stage, whether it's in treacle, cane sugar, honey or whatever, it will ferment out, leaving just the more complex, less fermentable sugars that the particular yeast couldn't get into. Adding fermentables to beer in secondary, or even at bottling, won't stop them fermenting.

The thing with hop oils is that they can (apparently) be dragged down with the sediment if you dry hop too early, before much of the yeast has cleared. Nothing to do with anything converting to alcohol.