is AG worth the expense?

[Diggerg]

Basically I'm thinking of moving to biab but is there a massively discernable difference between kits and AG, in terms of quality and flavour that justifies the extra cost?

 

[NickW]

Yes. I'm not sure you'll find anyone on this forum who moved to AG, then back to kits again... that speaks for itself :thumb:

And also... it doesn't cost more. Yea, the initial outlay is more than buying a few kits. But then you'll be making better beer cheaper than mid-high range kit prices

 

[MyQul]

I moved to BIAB BECAUSE of the cost savings. Doing a coopers kit plus 1kg of DME would cost me a minimum of £17 and that's if I spent a minimum of £60 at art of brewing to save on postage and bought 3 kits plus 3kg of DME. Buying individually which then cost postage would be about £22.

I have a LHBS in brixton where I can buy all my AG ingrediants and it costs me about £8 or £9 to do a 23L brew.

There's definately a BIG difference in terms of quality and flavour because a kit could be sitting on a shelf in a wharehouse for months whereas with AG your brewing with fresh ingrediants.

You've also got the world of beer at your feet. You can make virtually any style/type of beer you like. You can tweek and change receipes to your tastes and ABV strenths. With kit your limited to what kit you've bought.

Go for the BIAB!! If you've been making kits you've got most of the equipment anyway - you just need the bag and a big pot

 

[evanvine]

I think the question should be "Is AG worth the effort"!
You don't have to go all shiny, HERMS, spinny sparge etc.
I've been brewing in plastic for over 30 years, and have had lots of cracking brews that easily beat any commercial beer.
The following are "ball park" figures for a 3 tier system.
3x 30ltr bucket £36
1 fermenting bucket £8
3x Tesco element £15
Insulation for buckets £12
Plugs and cable etc £10
Copper for grain and hop filters (unless you use compression fittings) £6
Total £85 or 4.25 kits!

 

[winelight]

People keep saying that AG is so much better than kits, but since kits can be as good as or better than commercial brews.... I don't really see the point. Maybe I need to taste some to appreciate the difference.

As for price... because of the crazy offers I now have a big stock of kits that cost me between £1.30 and £5.50 so price is hardly an argument for going AG either. OK I have many kits the same, but to stop that getting boring I mix things up... yesterday I combined a Harvest Lager kit (which cost me about £1.30 - Tesco £2.74 less a discount for them denting the cans) plus half a Betterbrew kit from Wilko (so that's £2.75 - half of £5.50). Total price for brew of £4.04. At that price I can afford to dry hop with 100g (I also got them at reduced price from one of the forum sponsors - can't remember the price exactly but not very much).

I did add 340g LME but that too was on some crazy offer ages ago from Amazon and with free delivery. (I think it was £1, the details must still be in the eBay forum somewhere.)

And I don't need any special equipment... and it took me about 10 minutes to make this brew.

 

[clibit]

If you are happy with kits and don't want to spend hours making an AG brew, stick with kits. But everyone who has done AG knows you can make better beer. And you learn about all the different types of hops and malt and gradually make beers that suit your tastes exactly - and the different combinations are endless. And you only need a big pan, a sheet of voile and a thermometer. So the answer to the original question is a mixture of 'yes' and 'what expense?'

 

[Swift Pint]

remember you can always move up to doing extract brews without too much outlay. This will let you brew great beer whilst having control over your recipes.

 

[graysalchemy]

People keep saying that AG is so much better than kits, but since kits can be as good as or better than commercial brews.... I don't really see the point. Maybe I need to taste some to appreciate the difference.

Depends what you are calling commercial. If you mean Guinless John ***** Tetley etc then yes I agree. But if you mean a decent hand crafted micro brewed ale then no you need to brew all grain to get anywhere close.

 

[RobWalker]

Plus when you consider most all grain ingredient kits are about £10 all in, high quality and fully tweakable, you'll save money pretty quickly! The main thing is just deciding if you're going to stick with the brewing lark for a while. If so, it makes total financial sense. If you're just going to brew 5 times and give it up, that's when it'll cost you money (unless you build good quality kit that holds its value.) I was happy to invest in the gear because I know it'll be used for years to come.

 

[Diggerg]

Thanks for all your replies. I must state that I'm more of a lager drinker so recipes are more limited than ale ones but if i find one i like no problem. Seems that a big pot maybe on the horizon soon then. I'm quite handy with the old diy and not worried about electrics so seems this is the way I'll go. Thanks.

 

[dx4100]

People keep saying that AG is so much better than kits, but since kits can be as good as or better than commercial brews.... I don't really see the point.

Yeah I keep reading this...

If think its utter tripe myself with the up most of respect.

Kits to me gave me watery, sweet liquid with some alchol in it. It wasn't anywhere near what I can buy from a half decent real ale pub and that was my aim. Its kind of like beer but it isn't. To me anyway.

Since going to AG I am now producing beers above and beyond the ones I can buy and the flexability is huge.

But as someone else posted, you don't have to spend a lot, it can be cheap just avoid shiny things.

Its more a question is the time worth it... Prep + Brewing + Bottling + cleaning is around 10 hours for me I reckon.

Its worth it :thumb:

Kits = Tesco Value Microwave Meal
Extract = Marks and Spencer's Microwave Meal
Partial Mash = Good home cooked meal
Full Mash = Michelin star resturant

 

[oz11]

Depends where you're buying your commercial beer as well. If it's a pub that can't keep cask ale in good nick or doesn't have the turnover to shift a cask in three days or so then you might be drinking off beer, in which case a well made kit would be better, no doubt.

I don't believe a kit will compare to a pint of top notch Thornbridge Jaipur IPA or Harvey's Sussex Best (bound to divide opinion, that one ), for example, but an AG brew can. YMMV!

 

[dx4100]

Thanks for all your replies. I must state that I'm more of a lager drinker so recipes are more limited than ale ones but if i find one i like no problem. Seems that a big pot maybe on the horizon soon then. I'm quite handy with the old diy and not worried about electrics so seems this is the way I'll go. Thanks.

I think most lager kits are done with ale yeast. If you want good lager then AG is defo for you! But you will almost certainly need a brew fridge with temp control!

What is your fave type of lager ?

Tons of recipes out there!

 

[RobWalker]

in that case a much better upgrade for you would be a temperature control system imo. it'll have you producing much better lagers and you can tweak lager kits to your hearts content with hops, speciality malts and yeast choices.

there's a good chance your palette will evolve soon though, it happens to a lot of lager brewers :lol:

 

[dennisking]

People keep saying that AG is so much better than kits, but since kits can be as good as or better than commercial brews.... I don't really see the point. Maybe I need to taste some to appreciate the difference

Anyone in the St. Albans area that can let winelight have a taste?

 

[Aleman]

People keep saying that AG is so much better than kits, but since kits can be as good as or better than commercial brews.... I don't really see the point. Maybe I need to taste some to appreciate the difference

Anyone in the St. Albans area that can let winelight have a taste?

Why? Sorry to be confrontational, but if winelight thinks that he is brewing better than commercial beers with cheap end of line kits he will never accept that AG is just better.

 

[morethanworts]

I think the question should be "Is AG worth the effort"!

This was my first thought too - and it's still a resounding yes! A brew day seems to take most people anywhere between 5 and 8 hours (very roughly, including all setting up and cleaning away) just to get to the same stage you'd get to with a kit in about half an hour. If your free time is scarce, then you may well value this above any initial outlay.

I'm 3 brews into all grain (after around 40 kits and a handful of extracts since the mid-nineties, with gaps) and all three are better than any of the others I've ever done. I could seriously drink a pint straight out of the FV, once it's cleared down! None of this 'give it 6 months and maybe that weird tartness will fade' business, it seems, although any beer is obviously better after a certain period.

I already had a fermentation fridge and lots of bits and bobs, but my basic AG gear in itself only cost me around £70, which included a second hand coolbox mash tun, a couple of big Wilkos stockpots, some fittings and some free copper. If I'd tasted this beer earlier AND had the time to do it, then there's no way I would have done anything like 40 kits.

 

[evanvine]

This was my first thought too - and it's still a resounding yes!

I'm 100% with you!
There's a lot of reasons for doing kits: lack of space, lack of time, lack of brass if you can't build your own and the "can't be arsed" syndrome.
To my mind AG/Biab is brewing, kits are assembling/making!
The work and design has all been done, just add water!
The same with LME & DME.
AG is not every body's cup of tea, so there is a niche for kits.
Hell, the damn things taste like beer and contain alcohol!
Sorry to hijack your thread diggerg

 

[brewtim]

Remember - brewers make wort, yeast makes beer. Making kits is just making beer because the production of the wort has already been done for you, you have no control over the myriad ways of producing wort flavours and kits are nowhere near as fresh as a batch of 'just brewed' wort, fair enough, but if you want full control and treat it as a hobby rather than just making beer to drink, then AG will give you that and more.

It's an investment in time & energy rather than £££ cost because as people have already said BIAB is cheap to get going.

 

[BIGJIM72]

In answer to the original question-yes-but when you throw in the cost of a fermenting fridge as well for lagering & the fact lager is IMHO quite a tricky brew then for you I might suggest sticking with the kits if you are happy.