Leadership Debate

[Brianbrewed]

Better than what they have now. Or is Sleepy Joe doing a great job?

Never said Biden was good or bad. Never mentioned him at all.

I asked to explain why Trump was a good example of an entrepreneur been a good leader.

Please explain with resorting to whataboutery, mentioning the current incumbent or the Australian Labor party (or any left wing/Labour party in any other country).

 

[foxy]

Never said Biden was good or bad. Never mentioned him at all.

I asked to explain why Trump was a good example of an entrepreneur been a good leader.

Please explain with resorting to whataboutery, mentioning the current incumbent or the Australian Labor party (or any left wing/Labour party in any other country).

And what I said is he was better than what they have now. Not saying Trump is the best but better than what they have now. But I thought we were discussing the Pommy leadership? The biggest problem the poms have they always seem like they want someone to hold their hand.

 

[Brianbrewed]

And what I said is he was better than what they have now. Not saying Trump is the best but better than what they have now. But I thought we were discussing the Pommy leadership? The biggest problem the poms have they always seem like they want someone to hold their hand.

Not sure the biggest problem the English had was wanting someone to hold their hand?
Probably their biggest problem was their compulsion to build an empire.


Anyway, in what way was Trump a good example of an entrepreneur been a good leader of a country???

 

[Stu's Brews]

The biggest problem the poms have they always seem like they want someone to hold their hand.

No, we want someone that will represent the needs of the entire population (which is whole point of a democratic government), not the small minority that come from privileged backgrounds and those that happen to live in London.

 

[foxy]

Not sure the biggest problem the English had was wanting someone to hold their hand?
Probably their biggest problem was their compulsion to build an empire.


Anyway, in what way was Trump a good example of an entrepreneur been a good leader of a country???

As I said he was better than what they have now. Not ideal, as I am sure there are better entrepreneurs than him who could lead the country.

No, we want someone that will represent the needs of the entire population (which is whole point of a democratic government), not the small minority that come from privileged backgrounds and those that happen to live in London.

I see this word keep cropping up, 'privileged' anyone can run for parliament as they do, are all the parliamentarians privileged?

 

[Brianbrewed]

As I said he was better than what they have now. Not ideal, as I am sure there are better entrepreneurs than him who could lead the country.

Who?
Alan Sugar?

 

[Stu's Brews]

I see this word keep cropping up, 'privileged' anyone can run for parliament as they do, are all the parliamentarians privileged?

The vast majority of the current UK government come from middle or upper class backgrounds, particularly the latter in the case of the Conservative party. There is nothing to stop people from other backgrounds running for parliament but as mentioned in one of my other posts, it is far harder for them to break through as they don't have the same advantages.

Regardless of their background, MPs are appointed to represent the needs of all of their constituents. Unfortunately, it's more often the case that they help their 'mates' who come from a similar background.

 

[Dutto]

No-one can suggest that Trump is or was an “entrepreneur”!

Apparently, he would have made a lot more money by leaving his inheritance (from his father) in a bank and living off the interest!

Apparently, Trump refused to pay contractors that worked for him and made history by running a Casino that failed to turn a profit!

No-one knows anything for certain because he has stoically refused to disclose his financial status. Trump promised to publish his tax records if they made him President of the USA; then refused when they did!

Trump may be a liar and a cheat but he should never be classed as an “entrepreneur”!
:hat:

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Someone has just called Truss the pound shop Thatcher on 5 live.

 

[Dutto]

….

I see this word keep cropping up, 'privileged' anyone can run for parliament as they do, are all the parliamentarians privileged?

No! Some are financed by the Trade Unions!

According to the Right Wing Media this is a shocking use of power by the Trade Unions to allow “Oiks” to rise to the level of their “betters”!
:hat:

Alan Sugar?

Just like Trump. Another failed TV host famous for saying “You’re fired!”
:hat:

 

[foxy]

The vast majority of the current UK government come from middle or upper class backgrounds, particularly the latter in the case of the Conservative party. There is nothing to stop people from other backgrounds running for parliament but as mentioned in one of my other posts, it is far harder for them to break through as they don't have the same advantages.

Regardless of their background, MPs are appointed to represent the needs of all of their constituents. Unfortunately, it's more often the case that they help their 'mates' who come from a similar background.

Is there still a class system in the UK? It always seems to come back to it isn't fair. Get a grip life isn't fair, life is what you make it, that is why we have politicians. They are getting their snout into the trough, it isn't a party thing they are all the same, not one bit of difference between them and only a fool will think there is.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Is there still a class system in the UK? It always seems to come back to it isn't fair. Get a grip life isn't fair, life is what you make it, that is why we have politicians. They are getting their snout into the trough, it isn't a party thing they are all the same, not one bit of difference between them and only a fool will think there is.

Yes, there definitely is still as class system in the UK.

I never said 'it isn't fair', I said that those from wealthier backgrounds have significant advantages from the outset that help them become 'successful'.

I'm a white, male from a middle-class background and frankly, I've had it pretty easy to get into a well-paid engineering job (but it could have been politics instead) compared to someone from a lower-class background. Yes, I've had to put work in along the way but I certainly didn't have to work multiple jobs to fund my way through university or deal with issues around sexism or racism that may have prevented me from getting a foot in the door. So I'd say that definitely isn't 'fair'.

 

[foxy]

Yes, there definitely is still as class system in the UK.

I never said 'it isn't fair', I said that those from wealthier backgrounds have significant advantages from the outset that help them become 'successful'.

I'm a white, male from a middle-class background and frankly, I've had it pretty easy to get into a well-paid engineering job (but it could have been politics instead) compared to someone from a lower-class background. Yes, I've had to put work in along the way but I certainly didn't have to work multiple jobs to fund my way through university or deal with issues around sexism or racism that may have prevented me from getting a foot in the door. So I'd say that definitely isn't 'fair'.

Didn't say you said it isn't fair, it is the impression I get reading these posts, life is what you carve out for yourself. That is why it seems there are those who want someone to hold their hand. Doesn't take a brain that has gone to some privileged school plenty of people come out of a secondary modern school and has done well. It's the ne'er do wells who constantly complain. Opportunity is there for all.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Didn't say you said it isn't fair, it is the impression I get reading these posts, life is what you carve out for yourself. That is why it seems there are those who want someone to hold their hand. Doesn't take a brain that has gone to some privileged school plenty of people come out of a secondary modern school and has done well. It's the ne'er do wells who constantly complain. Opportunity is there for all.

We seem to be going round in circles so I'm going to leave it there. I've made my points as clear as I can in my posts and I don't think we're ever going to fully agree.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Other countries that have adopted and enacted socialist ideas and policies to various degrees, and have seen success in improving their societies by doing so, are Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Switzerland, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand.
This is the way forward not the current failed UK elitist model which has failed miserably.

 

[Brianbrewed]

Other countries that have adopted and enacted socialist ideas and policies to various degrees, and have seen success in improving their societies by doing so, are Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Switzerland, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand.
This is the way forward not the current failed UK elitist model which has failed miserably.

Unfortunately, Ireland has a class system, just not as obvious as England's.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[Dutto]

…. Opportunity is there for all.

No it isn’t: especially in the UK!

As a “for instance”, many people mistake “education” for “intelligence”.

This is why almost all very well-off people in the UK pay a lot of money to send their children to fee-paying schools! Many of these children are so well educated that they move on to a University despite being as thick as planks!

The really dense ones (i.e. those too stupid to be educated to University level) rely on “Parental” or “Old School Tie” contacts to find employment.

They very seldom need to sign on for Government Benefits and if push comes to shove (i.e. they are really, really thick) they can go into a cavalry regiment in the Army as an Officer!

I’ve met a few “Hooray Henry’s” in my time and thank the Lord that I mainly worked for American Companies.

I’m sure that they invented “The Peter Principle” to accommodate these people in industry!

Back in the days when Boris was popular, about 60% of his Cabinet was privately educated! Compare that to the UK in general where 93% of people are educated in state schools!

“Opportunity is there for all.” What a load of cobblers!
:hat:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/am...eshuffle-cabinet_uk_61431274e4b08f5f38ad0a44/

 

[starseeker]

I am afraid Dutton that opportunity is there for all ,if you have the drive and commitment ,on the other hand if you just decide to not bother as for what ever your excuse ,but on the whole you have not got what it takes, or expect something for nothing etc , Alan Sugar started with nothing as did lots of other people .Even the great love of your life ,Margaret Thatcher was a grocers daughter and got herself to the top of politics,in the 80,s ,when women were still expected to be home makers. I get a bit fed up reading ,its all right for them bull ,if more people pulled the finger out of their backside and buckled down to it, they could realise their potential .

 

[Brianbrewed]

I am afraid Dutton that opportunity is there for all ,if you have the drive and commitment

If you have access to education and capital.

In the Republic of Ireland there is still a huge barrier to students from a working class background accessing 3rd level education.
Their cultural background, geographical location, class barriers & expectations from their peer group are only some factors affecting students from a deprived background.
I work with kids from deprived backgrounds. They have plenty of drive but face a number of obstacles kids living in a different area could not comprehend.
This can range from lack of confidence, poverty, illness, low expectations or lack of parental support.

I am sure children in the UK, living in deprived areas, face similar challenges.

The unfortunate fact is drive and commtment, in these circumstances are rarely enough.

The lucky few who manage to break this glass ceiling are purely that, lucky.