Moving to all grain - limiting the variables

[DaveP]

Hi all,

going to be making the jump to all grain soon (as soon as the brewzilla stockists are taking the next batch of pre-orders..). Quite excited as the possibilities are endless. Also quite cautious as the possibilities are endless, had a look at some transatlantic fora, and it seems there are a lot of folks out there just chucking stuff in a kettle, with little ideas about what's doing what, or how many kilos of high-alpha hops are optimal for their next project. But you guys seem to be a bit more reasonable round here from what I've observed so far :-)

I've been reading "Home Brew - Beyond the Basics" by Mike Karnowski, which is good and gives a grounding in the basic principles. Also like his idea of starting off with a single malt and single hop brew, to get a feel for the kit and what's doing what in the flavour mix. Reminds me of when I started doing B&W photography, and I got the advice of "stick to one brand of film and one brand of developer for the first dozen rolls" which is how I learned how to judge exposure index and push/pull the processing. When I moved to a second brand it was an quick learning curve to grasp the possibilities of it as a result. So I'm looking for some advice regarding how to similarly limit the brewing variables so I might do some proper learning, whilst brewing some nice beer.

Apologies for the rambling pre-amble. I'll try and cut to the chase.... I'm basically looking at putting together a basic stockpile of ingredients that would allow me to brew a few different types of beer, without blowing the bank or ending up with a ton of unused stuff. So thinking, 1 base malt, 1 general purpose yeast, small range of hops and speciality grains. So far I've got as far as:

Base Malt - A 25kg sack of Maris Otter would appear to be a no-brainer
Yeast - Nottingham would seem to be a decent all rounder which isn't too temperature fussy. Going for dried for cheapness and ease of use

Hops - Help required - Thinking 4 to start with. Possibly a couple of traditional such as Fuggles and Challenger, plus a couple of high alpha varieties. So 4 usefully different varieties to play with

Speciality Grains - Help required - could anyone suggest, say, 4 varieties of other malts which I could combine with the Otter to make a full spectrum of beers (yellow through to brown :-) ) of various styles. Idea would be to buy a few kilos of each.

So, the idea is to put together a simple "toolkit" of ingredients I can play with for the first half dozen to dozen batches, just to get a feel for the dependencies between ingredients. Whilst making great beer, obviously. Just keen to actually learn what I'm up to rather than just playing with constant new stuff.

All input appreciated

thanks,

Dave

 

[Clint]

Buy the Bible...Greg Hughes book on homebrew. It's geared towards three vessel systems,(pots and mash tun) but has some great recipes and it won't take you long to adjust them to your system.

 

[KegThat]

Hi Dave,

We stock Grain and Yeast (Hops as of Monday).

I would recommend to get started:

Marris Otter Pale Malt (25kg)
Torrified wheat (3kg)

East kent gouldings
Fuggles
Citrus
Challenger

Safale SO-4

 

[MyQul]

Base Malt - 25kg sack deffo a good idea. MO good but you could go cheaper and buy plain pale malt

Hops - depends on what style beers you like drinking,English styles? Belgians? Lagers? IPA's/American new world stuff? Magnum is an excellent bittering hop as it's high alpha, nuetral, clean and cheap. Challenger is good if you like English styles a its a bittering hop an late hop and can double up for (Pseudo) Lagers as it's a bit spicy like germanic noble hops

Specialty Grains - I mostly like English styles so I buy a stock of medium crystal (lots of beers styles have crystal), roasted barley (for stouts and also coloring), chocolate (porters, milds, brown ales, stouts) black malt (you dont need to buy much of this if your going to buy some - I like it in milds). This is an idea of what to keep in stock obviously you might like differnet stlyes. You can then add other more exotic specialty malts

Yeast - Notty is a good workhorse. With CML yeast being around £2.50 you can have a bit of a range in stock

 

[cushyno]

I agree with your base malt and yeast choice. MO is a good starting point and has some character that other pale malts seen to lack in my experience.

Get some Crystal 60 and chocolate too. These will allow you to play with colour and malt flavour. Munich malt is a good addition to the store cupboard.

Nottingham is versatile and can produce a clean almost crisp beer if fermented at 15°C, or something with a little more character if somewhat middle of the road at higher temperatures.

I'm with MyQul on Magnum for bittering, or Norther Brewer is a flexible hop that may be used in British, German, and American styles both for bittering and as a late hop.
East Kent Golding's is a must, and Challenger.
If you're into American fruity hops, cascade is a good introduction. For continental beers, Hallertau Mittelfruh is versatile, but Saaz is instantly recognisable and good in a SMaSH too.

Looking at other yeasts, CML California Common can be used in a number of styles including pseudo lagers. Mangrove Jacks M36 is a good flavorful yeast for English styles.

Lots of scope to experiment.

 

[DaveP]

Thanks for the replies so far. In terms of what I drink, I'm mainly a creature of ale, I especially like a strong red ale, 8O%, Adnam's Broadside, Hobgoblin, etc, and darker on occasion. Also like a good IPA (Proper Job's a favourite). Curious about craft IPA's with their face-melting hops, but I think a 40 batch would cause the novelty to quickly wear off. Also like citrus-y and melon-y hops in a lighter amber or yellow pint.

 

[prog99]

My first ever ag was Graham Wheelers Landlord clone nearly 20 years ago. I kept it simple with one malt(the old recipe) and two hops. You've less to worry about and can concentrate on the process.

 

[cushyno]

If you fancy a milder hopped IPA I've made this a couple of times and it has gone down well with all who have tried it. Just scale to whatever volume you want.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/vienna-ipa-recipe-check.81316/Made it with both CML Kölsch and Nottingham and both were good. The Kölsch yeast gave it a bit more fruitiness.

 

[dwhite60]

Hops.

I always have some Centennial on hand. Works well in many things. It's like a high performance Cascade. Works for bittering, flavor, and aroma.

This isn't a smash but it's simple and gets great reviews. It's called "Centennial Blonde". It's from another homebrew forum. I made it back in January and was pleased. Still a few bottles left. It gets better with time. You can do this with all Centennial and it's fine. That's what I did.

Some Cara-Pils (aids head retention) and Vienna are good things to have around. Maybe a couple kilos Vienna. Kilo of Cara-Pils.

****5 Gallon Batch****

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.57 gal
Estimated OG: 1.040 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount
7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
0.75 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
0.25 oz Centennial [9.50%] (55 min)
0.25 oz Centennial [9.50%] (35 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [7.80%] (20 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [7.80%] (5 min)
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) (Hydrated)

 

[cushyno]

Hops.

I always have some Centennial on hand. Works well in many things. It's like a high performance Cascade. Works for bittering, flavor, and aroma.

This isn't a smash but it's simple and gets great reviews. It's called "Centennial Blonde". It's from another homebrew forum. I made it back in January and was pleased. Still a few bottles left. It gets better with time. You can do this with all Centennial and it's fine. That's what I did.

Some Cara-Pils (aids head retention) and Vienna are good things to have around. Maybe a couple kilos Vienna. Kilo of Cara-Pils.

****5 Gallon Batch****

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.57 gal
Estimated OG: 1.040 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount
7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
0.75 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
0.25 oz Centennial [9.50%] (55 min)
0.25 oz Centennial [9.50%] (35 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [7.80%] (20 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [7.80%] (5 min)
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) (Hydrated)

That's similar ingredients to my recipe. Vienna, cascade/Citra/centennial and Notty are easy to work with and give pretty reliable results.

 

[Edison]

Buy the Bible...Greg Hughes book on homebrew. It's geared towards three vessel systems,(pots and mash tun) but has some great recipes and it won't take you long to adjust them to your system.

Yes, this is a great book and it explains the process so well it makes perfect sense for either 3V or BIAB (brew in a bag e.g. Brewzilla, Braumeister etc.). I still use recipes and the hop/malt/yeast descriptions in this book 5 years later!

 

[An Ankoù]

Hi Dave,

We stock Grain and Yeast (Hops as of Monday).

I would recommend to get started:

Marris Otter Pale Malt (25kg)
Torrified wheat (3kg)

East kent gouldings
Fuggles
Citrus
Challenger

Safale SO-4

"citrus"?

 

[An Ankoù]

A bag of pale malt
Some caramalt
a bit of medium or dark crystal malt
Challenger, Fuggles, EKGs,
a sachet of Safale S-04 and one of US-05
As Clint says, Greg Hughes Homebrew book (It's not called the Bible, that's by Chris Colby).
Add a bit of Black Malt, so you can make some stout or colour your bitters without unduly sweetening them with crystal, and you can make most English-style beers.
Good luck and good brewing.

 

[KegThat]

"citrus"?

Haha sorry! autocorrect Citra of course

 

[DaveP]

Hi all, thanks for this appreciate it. Taken aback by volume and depth of responses, plenty to think about there.... I'll get hold of a copy of Greg Hughes book and have a read.
Plan starting to form in my head... If I start with a SMaSH based on one of the recipes provided above, and then do the recipe itself as a second brew it should provide me with a "way in" to start understanding it all. Then i can darken it on the next one, etc.... hmmm.... decisions, decisions.... possibly half-batches to start would be the way to do it.... or split fermentations with different yeasts..... much plotting and scheming to do.....

Thanks again,

Dave

 

[Sandimas]

Graham Wheeler's book is also worth getting, it's mainly British ales made with either Fuggles or Challenger for bittering, with EKG and Styrian Goldings for late hops. Get those hops plus some base malt, crystal malt, and maybe a little black malt (and yeast of course) and you'll be able to make a lot of different beers to get you on the learning curve.

I've made most of the recipes out of there, and I found it a good starting point for working out what makes a difference e.g. you'd think that a single-hop Fuggles recipe with no late hops would be rather bland, but far from it.

 

[An Ankoù]

I'll get hold of a copy of Greg Hughes book and have a read.

I see it's out of stock at Amazon and the earlier edition has become a "collector's item".
Just looking to see what other titles might be available: Wheeler and Protz have gone into the realms of silly money.
A couple to avoid, in my opinion, would be Parker and wheeler (CAMRA) and James Morton's offering.
Papazian's Complete joy is a great read, but the measures and terminology are American which can be confusing at first. The same goes for Mosher. How to Brew by the other Palmer is, perhaps, a tad too advanced to begin with.
Hmmm, getting hold of a decent book at a decent price might be an issue.

 

[DaveP]

I see it's out of stock at Amazon and the earlier edition has become a "collector's item".
Just looking to see what other titles might be available: Wheeler and Protz have gone into the realms of silly money.
A couple to avoid, in my opinion, would be Parker and wheeler (CAMRA) and James Morton's offering.
Papazian's Complete joy is a great read, but the measures and terminology are American which can be confusing at first. The same goes for Mosher. How to Brew by the other Palmer is, perhaps, a tad too advanced to begin with.
Hmmm, getting hold of a decent book at a decent price might be an issue.

found a copy on AbeBooks for £11 all in, ordered. Bargain!

 

[DaveP]

found a copy on AbeBooks for £11 all in, ordered. Bargain!

Hughes, that is