What's the process with HMRC if I want to sell my beer

[lancon]

Selling beer you can only sell through a licence. Either to licensed premises or on licensed premises, I do a market that has its own licence and sell to off licences and pubs. Selling from home will probably be the most problematic as that will involve planning and licensing authorities from council.

 

[Druncan]

The difficulty and delay we had (over 1 year) was converting our commercial property (so half way there you think?,,,,,) to part domestic (our living area) and brewery/workshop. Planning had concerns about any discharge that could adversely affect neighbours (noise, smells, waste, light, access) and development- how many days brewing now and in then two years (same info for AWRS)

TBH cider is a better initial product made from concentrate like the big cider makers

 

[Mr Brico]

Hi,
I’m looking into selling beer in the UK on a very small scale as a kind of paid hobby and have seen there are a few things that need to happen.
1. Get in touch with HM Revenue & Customs for duty purposes.
2. Get in touch with local environmental health organisation (EHO)
I know i will need to pay a Beer Duty:
Duty: Brewers with an annual production of not more than 60,000 hectolitres may be eligible for a reduced rate of duty (This is currently 50% of the General Beer Duty £19.08 per hectolitre (under 7.5 % abv)
I don’t know what else happens or what else I need to do if I want to sell from home?
I think the answers to this will make a great thread for the whole forum.
Thanks in advance.
G

sell a bottle opener and give the beer away free

 

[Northern_Brewer]

sell a bottle opener and give the beer away free

Don't do that - HMRC will see right through it. If they think you're trying to evade paying duty they will throw the book at you.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

sell a bottle opener and give the beer away free

As NB said above it will not work.

If i remember correctly someone tried to raffle beer to dodge HMRC and that didn't end well (not a forum member but discussed here)

 

[airymary]

The landlord of my local sampled my beer, and asked me if I'd like to supply his pub with draft beer on a commercial basis. Looking into what was involved, with beer tax, hygiene regs etc, I concluded I'd be turning my hobby into a chore, so politely declined. It's not something to be done 'on the side'.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

In that situation, two options to consider are either cuckoo brewing - in effect you rent a commercial brewery for the day or as an ongoing arrangement so they take care of most of the paperwork, or you take your kit to the pub and use the fact that they are likely already food preparation premises and have some of the licences in place, and you're just hired as a brewer (and they rent your kit) or whatever.

Those two routes don't eliminate all the paperwork but they do reduce big chunks of it - just using an existing food-prep/brewing premises cuts out a big chunk of work.

 

[lancon]

If you're doing it in your kitchen then that probably will satisfy Env Health, making beer is regarded as low risk, however its the packaging (casking) that they are more interested in, but if you are in a normal clean kitchen then it is not difficult.
Problem with cuckoo brewing is that you have to brew quite a lot so need casks which are a nuisance and you only do one beer at a time which basically has to be sold before you can make more as you have nowhere to put it until you have your casks back.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Environmental Health can be funny - they can be really constructive and helpful up to a point, but they can get a bee in their bonnet about slightly random things.

The OP said he was looking at draught for a pub so casks/kegs were always going to be part of the deal - and potentially there would be scope for storing them in the pub cellar, depending on size.

 

[Druncan]

Kegs and casks are a financial nightmare. They are expensive, get damaged or lost/stolen, so It takes a large area to store kegs to have sufficient spares. Cleaning/sanitising and storing inertly is a job in itself. The buggers are so time consuming to do it properly by hand,,,, and then when someone has failed to put covers on an flies or other insects get in or some nob makes a BBQ out of them A commercial keg washer is almost essential. I use Ecofass 30l kegs, as they avoid lots of this, so for me they are much safer but higher on-going operational costs.

My EHO's have been brilliant, but I did work in Environmental health and knew generally what their expectations would be. You cannot cut corners. It is a food product that can be very high risk (allergies, contaminants, aflatoxins in grain and chemical residues to name a few areas,,,, ) you need to submit beer samples for analysis to be safe and for HMRC to check your ABV calculations. Also my business insurance is expensive, but a cost effective essential. I am sorry to sound so pessimistic, but you need to be so careful. I don't know how you would even be able to start up with covid restrictions in place?

 

[lancon]

The good thing about doing the brewing at the pub is if that was the only outlet then AWRS would not be involved.

 

[JebKerman]

Have to say that the guys at the AWRS office are the most helpful I have dealt with at HMRC.
If you have any issues, they are really quick to respond, but make sure you have all due diligence in place for all points of your supply chain and have a couple of written orders in principle when you apply.

 

[Gorecki]

Has anyone come across a situation where they require an hmrc licence to sell their beer but do not have their own premises? I.E They use contract brewers to produce their beer. Thanks

 

[Northern_Brewer]

You're describing the typical cuckoo-brewing scenario. If you're paying duty, then you need the HMRC paperwork to be straight. If you're not paying duty (in effect you're buying beer off a brewing company even if you were involved in making it), then you don't need the brewing paperwork (but do need the same licenses as eg a beer wholesaler).

So you can simplify some of the paperwork by keeping all of the brewing within the host brewery and then buying finished beer off them, but they will typically only be willing to do that for a one-off brew.

 

[Gorecki]

You're describing the typical cuckoo-brewing scenario. If you're paying duty, then you need the HMRC paperwork to be straight. If you're not paying duty (in effect you're buying beer off a brewing company even if you were involved in making it), then you don't need the brewing paperwork (but do need the same licenses as eg a beer wholesaler).

So you can simplify some of the paperwork by keeping all of the brewing within the host brewery and then buying finished beer off them, but they will typically only be willing to do that for a one-off brew.

Thanks for your reply. Sorry if I need it spelling out but I'm reading it as this - If I use contract brewers to make my beer then I would just need a licence to sell alcohol and would not need a certificate to brew (as I'm not making the beer myself).

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If I use contract brewers to make my beer

You need to be more precise about what involvement you have in the process. If you are buying grain through your company and then renting equipment to make it into beer, with the critical distinction that your company is responsible for the fermentation then you will be paying duty and HMRC will be more involved. If your company is just buying beer duty-paid then the company is no different to a wholesaler or pub, and the brewery will handle all the HMRC stuff.

 

[Gorecki]

You need to be more precise about what involvement you have in the process. If you are buying grain through your company and then renting equipment to make it into beer, with the critical distinction that your company is responsible for the fermentation then you will be paying duty and HMRC will be more involved. If your company is just buying beer duty-paid then the company is no different to a wholesaler or pub, and the brewery will handle all the HMRC stuff.

Thank you, the plan would be to provide all ingredients ourselves and then have a brewery make, ferment and can our product. However I've seen several contract brewers offer to source the ingredients from their end, I'm not sure of the advantages or disadvantages of this.

 

[jceg316]

I'm about to go through the process of starting my own brewery, and there is very little information out there on what's needed. I've been gathering information from various sources, and as I start going through the process I plan to document it to help others know what to do. This thread has been quite helpful.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thank you, the plan would be to provide all ingredients ourselves and then have a brewery make, ferment and can our product. However I've seen several contract brewers offer to source the ingredients from their end, I'm not sure of the advantages or disadvantages of this.

So if your company is not doing the fermenting and you're just buying finished beer, then you're not a brewer you're a wholesaler.

Brewing has brutal economies of scale, so if you're buying a few 100kgs of ingredients you will buy them at much greater cost than somebody buying hundreds of tonnes. Also don't expect to be able to rock up and just buy 10kg of Galaxy and other rare hops, you usually need to contract then - although the current collapse of the brewing economy may mean all sorts of rarities becoming available that were contracted by bankrupt breweries.

The other problem with cuckoo brewing is that your host may not want "exotic" yeast and bacteria near their brewery.

I'm about to go through the process of starting my own brewery, and there is very little information out there on what's needed. I've been gathering information from various sources, and as I start going through the process I plan to document it to help others know what to do. This thread has been quite helpful.

Actually the process is documented in pretty exhaustive detail in Ted Bruning's book - if you're serious about doing this then you need to read it.

If you're seriously looking at this then I strongly recommend you get Ted Bruning's Microbrewer's Handbook - make sure it's the latest, 7th edition which came out in July :
The Microbrewers' Handbook 2019 : Ted Bruning : 9781999840815

 

[Gorecki]

So if your company is not doing the fermenting and you're just buying finished beer, then you're not a brewer you're a wholesaler.

Brewing has brutal economies of scale, so if you're buying a few 100kgs of ingredients you will buy them at much greater cost than somebody buying hundreds of tonnes. Also don't expect to be able to rock up and just buy 10kg of Galaxy and other rare hops, you usually need to contract then - although the current collapse of the brewing economy may mean all sorts of rarities becoming available that were contracted by bankrupt breweries.

The other problem with cuckoo brewing is that your host may not want "exotic" yeast and bacteria near their brewery.



Actually the process is documented in pretty exhaustive detail in Ted Bruning's book - if you're serious about doing this then you need to read it.

Thanks for all your help on this, it's been extremely useful