Electric cars.

[Polcho]

People just don’t think about, or care about consequences, bit like people running about buying electric cars and wondering why we haven’t got enough electric left

Myth. Most EV charging is done off peak.

On peak, off peak, when it’s gone it’s gone. When the lights go out it will be time to reflect on the wisdom of all this.

 

[Alastair70]

Electricity is generated (currently approaching 40% renewable). Supply just has to meet demand.
It’s not like there’s a finite supple of electrons that were rapidly running out of. That’s fossil fuel.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Myth. Most EV charging is done off peak.

Agreed, but this might turn sour as we turn more to renewables with everyone wanting to charge cars at a time we’re producing little from wind and nothing from solar.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

ELECTRIC VEHICLE GRID IMPACT​

Fact: If 80% of all passenger cars become electric, this would lead to a total increase of 10-15% in electricity consumption.

So far, the market entry of EVs has been very predictable and the electric grid is constantly being developed in parallel. Current EV market trends show low to moderate energy uptake rates.

The projected growth in e-mobility will not drive an immediate or substantial increase in total electrical-grid power demand, according to a study by McKinsey & Company. This means EV’s aren’t likely to cause any abrupt surprises or disruptions in our power supply and there is no need for new electricity-generation capacity in the near future.

If we take Germany as an example, EV growth won’t cause any large increases in power demand through 2030. On the contrary, EVs could add 1% to the total and require about five extra gigawatts (GW) of generation capacity. That amount could grow to roughly 4% by 2050, which would only require an additional capacity of about 20 GW. Moreover, this new-build capacity will likely involve renewables, including wind and solar power, with some gas-powered generation.

At the same time, electric vehicles are 5 to 6 times more energy-efficient than the best internal combustion engines (ICE) vehicle. In passenger cars, EVs consume 25% the amount of energy in comparison to ICE vehicles. E-trucks consume about 50% of their diesel equivalents’ own energy consumption.

This means that when a majority of the vehicles on our streets are electric, the total amount of energy consumed in transport is significantly less than what it is now. And electric vehicles only continue to get more efficient and green.

https://www.virta.global/blog/myth-buster-electric-vehicles-will-overload-the-power-grid

 

[DocAnna]

Ok - as usual I'm going to complicate things. Electric cars use less energy from all sources than carbon fuel cars, irrespective of source. Electricity consumption has been decreasing rather than increasing since 2005, capacity is increasing and renewable use is increasing. In Scotland about 98% overall electricity is renewable - though this is a bit misleading as it exports quite a bit of this and imports during higher demand. So lets get this absolutely clear, this is not a zero sum game, more electric cars will not cause power limitation from other sources. There is a need to replace and increase generating capacity from renewables and nuclear but that is primarily to move away from gas fired electrical power, which is a much bigger issue.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So lets get this absolutely clear, this is not a zero sum game, more electric cars will not cause power limitation from other sources.

Well said Anne, "the lights are going to go out when EV's become popular" seems to be a popular misconception pedalled by people who haven't done any research whatsoever if they had they would see it's simply not true.
I recently changed my car and would have happily bought an EV but i do not have a means of charging it at home (no off-street parking) so i would have had to pay to charge it which would have meant it costing close to the price of a patrol car (I didn't want another diesel)

 

[Rodcx500z]

I just got rid of the pug and would have got an ev or hydrogen car but i like Chippy have no means to charge at home and there are no hydrogen pumps in the region, so i got a 1L 3 cylinder nissan juke turbo and what a cracker it is 117 bhp weighs next to nowt on a run up to Nairn and a week round the highlands it averaged 58.8 mpg that will do me, round town it does 49.2 mpg

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If the charging situation doesn't change my next car will be a hybrid, Toyota seem to have nailed this and their hybrids can do 60 - 100 mpg with no need to plug in, not ideal but the only option for those with no means to charge at home.

 

[MrRook]

When our petrol car gives up the ghost our next vehicle will be the bus as there's no way in heck that we can afford a new anything.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

When our petrol car gives up the ghost our next vehicle will be the bus as there's no way in heck that we can afford a new anything.

You can pick up a 24 kWh Nissan Leaf from £5k most of them have loads of battery life left buying a second-hand EV isn't the minefield some would have us believe.





He makes an error about the cells dying as explained below -
Be careful. Your comments: "this is telling you how many of the original battery cells are still working" (1:23), and "the first bar will drop after 15% of the original battery cells stop working", (2:52) suggest that some cells may have died or stopped working which is incorrect. All cells are still working albeit with slightly less capacity.
To completely lose a cell (a dead cell) would cause the BMS to be unable to balance the pack and would result in a fault (an idiot light on the dash). Ideally the BMS will work to keep all cells balanced to within 50 mV so that they lose capacity at relatively the same rate. Considering that all the cells are essentially close to the same capacity (in a properly balanced and working battery pack), the first lost bar simply indicates that all of the cells have "collectively" lost a certain capacity amounting to a 15% overall pack loss. Referring to lost capacity bars as lost or dead cells is incorrect.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...ion=on&page=3&percentVehiclePriceDeposit=true

The bars described in the video above on a used 2013 43,000 mile leaf (link above) -

2013 Nissan Leaf 24kwh.
Low mileage and great range compared to similar older year models.
Battery is owned.
Has CHAdeMO rapid charger, as well as Type 1 charging port make it usable daily either with a dedicated home charge point or 3 pin plug slow charge.
Comes with Nissan 3 pin plug charger.

 

[Alastair70]

On peak, off peak, when it’s gone it’s gone. When the lights go out it will be time to reflect on the wisdom of all this.

I’m struggling to see any rationality in that comment whatsoever. I’d be really interested to see you evidence the belief properly for my own education. At first read it just reads like knee jerk slippery slope nonsense. Can you elaborate on your claim.

Agreed, but this might turn sour as we turn more to renewables with everyone wanting to charge cars at a time we’re producing little from wind and nothing from solar.

I’m doing 25,000 miles in an EV per year and generate the electricity for 20,000 of those miles with home solar. Regardless of what happens in the foreseeable future, the one thing I’m happy to bet on is that the sun will still shine and the wind will still blow

 

[Leon103]

I really think the bbc/government are driving the - we will run out of electricity ****. Its the government way of getting us to use less so we hit their targets and they don't have to bail out the needy.

We can generate enough electricity if we step up solar, wind, tidal, hydro etc.

Turn petrol forecourts into solar parks. And if our lights go out let's light a candle and grab a beer.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I’m doing 25,000 miles in an EV per year and generate the electricity for 20,000 of those miles with home solar. Regardless of what happens in the foreseeable future, the one thing I’m happy to bet on is that the sun will still shine and the wind will still blow

The good news for you is the sun is likely to be shining a lot more due to climate change, Grunge probably wouldn't agree.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

There are at least 10 housing developments within a 10 mile radius of my house, only one has solar panels on the roof, criminal in my opinion.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

There are at least 10 housing developments within a 10 mile radius of my house, only one has solar panels on the roof, criminal in my opinion.

All the new builds round here have panels i am not sure if it's a local thing or is now the law.

 

[Alastair70]

The good news for you is the sun is likely to be shining a lot more due to climate change, Grunge probably wouldn't agree.

And the winds are getting stronger too!

 

[The Baron]

So you tell me how most people and certainly second jobs are going to afford and pay for a EV. do bear in mind that a EV that is 6 years plus old will very shortly require a new battery at £000's so they will not be viable for majority of general workers or the second job workers where they require 2 cars.
Just a thought

 

[Chippy_Tea]

do bear in mind that a EV that is 6 years plus old will very shortly require a new battery at £000's so they will not be viable for majority of general workers or the second job workers where they require 2 cars.

This simply is not the case as i posted earlier -

The 2013 leaf has covered 43,000 mile and has only lost one bar.

How long do electric car batteries last?​

The hundreds of gently topped-up cells inside an EV battery mean that each battery pack is expected to retain its charging-discharging capacity from 100,000 to 200,000 miles. Manufacturers are so confident of the battery’s road use that most electric cars come with an extended warranty of eight years, or 100,000 miles.

The battery will outlive the car...

“The battery will outlive the car,” says Graeme Cooper confidently. “Today, most EV batteries have a life expectancy of 15 to 20 years within the car – and a second life beyond.”

It’s also worth noting that EV battery technology is still evolving, so as tech develops we expect batteries’ lifespan to increase – as well as becoming cheaper, smaller and even lighter.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/storie...eries have,cheaper, smaller and even lighter.

 

[Agentgonzo]

The good news for you is the sun is likely to be shining a lot more due to climate change, Grunge probably wouldn't agree.

No, it really won't. That's not what climate change is.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

No, it really won't. That's not what climate change is.

It was a joke hence the mention of @Grunge our once resident and very vocal climate change denier.