Reviving wooden barrels

[pomme homme]

Frequently I have problems with malic acid in my cider. Maybe the variety of apple that I use to make it has a high malic acid content? I've tried, but failed, to master the art of malolactic fermentation. So I've attempted to think laterally. I've read that maturing cider in oak barrels helps to ameliorate the problem of lactic acid. In my attic several old wooden barrels are stored (they were there when I bought the property) which, because they haven't been used for ages (well, at least fifteen years), are dry as a bone. But other than that, they appear to be sound - in terms of the wooden staves, the iron hoops and wooden heads. It's been suggested to me that what I need to do is to rehydrate the wood, so that it swells and the barrels regain their structural integrity and 'tightness', in order that that the barrels become watertight and do not leak when filled with cider. My problem is - how do I do that? The barrels are not small. I don't know their capacity but, approximately, their height is 90 cm, their mid diameter is 60 cm and their end diameter is 54 cm. If I try to fill them with water, it's certain to run out, between the dehydrated, shrunken staves, before it can be taken up by and rehydrate the wood. I live next to a river and so I've thought about filling the barrels with water and then immersing them in that (as well as, of course, securing them to the bank so that they don't float off downstream!). But from the point of view of hygiene, that approach leaves something to be desired. Has anyone else had the same problem when trying to press dehydrated wooden barrels back into service? If so, how did they overcome this - if they did! Alternatively, has anyone thought up a 'cunning plan' to apply in these circumstances? Constructive suggestions will be much appreciated.

p.s. I've just found a formula for calculating barrel volume and it seems that the volume of my barrels is about 240 litres each.

 

[Pirate_Pete]

https://ozarkmountainfermentations.wordpress.com/2016/01/20/reviving-a-long-lost-wooden-friend/

Never done it mate. Had a quick google and it seems people restore them to use as tables etc.
In the link above the bloke does say he's only saving the barrel as it held spirit and he wouldn't try
it on a barrel that had wine in it.

If it was me I'd try and copy that bloke though. Still 240 litres is a big barrel. Not like it's 5 litres
that you can try, and chuck away if it doesn't work.

 

[chewie]

No expert on wooden barrels but if you want to try to ressurect it you could maybe try tying or strapping it down inside a large tub or bath and filling it with water, it could take several weeks for it to fully seal, if it ever does. I'm fairly sure there is a member on here who was a cooper and he could maybe shed some more insight into it.

 

[Pirate_Pete]

No expert on wooden barrels but if you want to try to ressurect it you could maybe try tying or strapping it down inside a large tub or bath and filling it with water, it could take several weeks for it to fully seal, if it ever does. I'm fairly sure there is a member on here who was a cooper and he could maybe shed some more insight into it.

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62731&highlight=cooper

Davemc?

 

[chewie]

Aye, that was the thread i read a while back.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Done this with smaller old barrel. It needs to be supported on its side, with belly clear of the ground, bung hole uppermost. Use a hose to fill it with clean water. It will leak, usually in more than one place. After 24 hours, top it up. If it's sound, most leaks will have been sealed by the swelling of the wood. Top up. It will take a few days to fully hydrate. If successful, you will need to clean and sanitise the inside. If it smells of vinegar, I would advise not to use it, otherwise keep it filled with water until you have enough cider to fill it. However, storing cider in wood does not affect the malic acid, unless mlf takes place, but does smooth the tannin. To encourage mlf, avoid using sulphite at any stage, because it kills the lactobacilli. I have used a culture called Malocid, which works.

 

[Davemc]

If they have been stored in an attic for a long time you might have trouble getting them tight. Having said that it's worth a try. I wouldn't go soaking them in the river if you plan on using them for cider, cleaning the inside without specialist equipment or tools could be a problem. If they are so dried out that they are going to leak so badly then I would suggest steam.

You need a steam wallpaper stripper or simmilar and if you can a plastic bag big enough to put over them. Stick the steamer pipe inside the cask and cover it with a bag (losely don't seel it or the steam will cause it to burst under pressure. Steam them for a good while then when you need to stop seal them in the bag and do it again the following day. This should swell the wood enough to be able to eventually start filling them with water.

Hope it works, let us know how you get on.

 

[pomme homme]

Many thanks to all of you for your constructive suggestions. I'm inclined, at least first of all, to try Tony's approach - as it's the easiest for me to facilitate. Chewie's suggestion makes sense - but if you take a look at the size of the barrel, you'll appreciate the size of the vessel I'd need in order to submerge the barrel in that. I don't have such a vessel and I can't think where I might find one! Equally, Davemc's idea seems sound - but I'm back to the problem of finding a polythene sack large enough to encompass each barrel and, to compound that, I don't have a wallpaper stripper (as I don't have any wallpaper). But I'll give it my best shot and, in due course, I'll post as to the result of my endeavours.

 

[pomme homme]

A friend has suggested something that makes Chewie's suggestion achievable. It's to immerse the barrels in his swimmming pool (the water in which, he says, is not chlorinated). Maybe I'll give this a try.

And I should have mentioned, earlier on, that the interiors of the barrels have an absolutely neutral smell. A neighbour has suggested that probably they were used to store eau-de-vie.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Eau-de-vie has good preservative properties with no chance of acetification. My barrel ended up with just 2 leaks. One was an actual small hole, which was easily plugged with wood. The other was a long thin crack, causing seepage. I marked the area, emptied the barrel and applied silicon sealant, using a blunt knife to force it into the crack. Once fully cured, I refilled the barrel and there was no leak.
There is a very elaborate system of cleaning old barrels, but in the end I used a hot solution of washing soda, followed by a sulphite solution and a good rinse. There was no bung and it took time to track down a cork bung of the right size.
When full your barrel will be too heavy to lift, so install it at a suitable height so that you can siphon the contents into suitable size containers for dispensing (eg polypins). Old barrels do no impart any flavour as such but will still condition the contents. I filled mine with white wine and what came out was better than what went in. Wood breathes, so some water is lost. This concentrates alcohol but also acidity, which will make your problem worse. Bear in mind, many commercial ciders do not use pure juice and can contain as little as 35% apple juice (the legal minimum). The acidity is consequently much lower.

 

[pomme homme]

Thank you, Tony. Oh, and before I forget - again - can you please tell me about Malocid and where I can source it?

I'm tempted to pursue the discussion about the problems of malic acid and malolactic fermentation here, but it's probably better that I do so in a discrete thread.

 

[Personal91]

Eau-de-vie has good preservative properties with no chance of acetification. My barrel ended up with just 2 leaks. One was an actual small hole, which was easily plugged with wood. The other was a long thin crack, causing seepage. I marked the area, emptied the barrel and applied silicon sealant, using a blunt knife to force it into the crack. Once fully cured, I refilled the barrel and there was no leak.
There is a very elaborate system of cleaning old barrels, but in the end I used a hot solution of washing soda, followed by a sulphite solution and a good rinse. There was no bung and it took time to track down a cork bung of the right size.
When full your barrel will be too heavy to lift, so install it at a suitable height so that you can siphon the contents into suitable size containers for dispensing (eg polypins). Old barrels do no impart any flavour as such but will still condition the contents. I filled mine with white wine and what came out was better than what went in. Wood breathes, so some water is lost. This concentrates alcohol but also acidity, which will make your problem worse. Bear in mind, many commercial ciders do not use pure juice and can contain as little as 35% apple juice (the legal minimum). The acidity is consequently much lower.

that's appauling that 35% is acceptable !

it just makes a mockery of traditional scrumpy etc - no wonder so many try it and think that's its muck. this is both infuriating and saddening :nono:

 

[tonyhibbett]

I think I got Malocid from brewuk. It is added towards the end of fermentation. Left unchecked, it will convert all of the malic acid into lactic acid, effectively halving the acidity, but then the cider loses some of its identity. The trick is to sample it as it progresses and stop it it with sulphite before it gets too bland. I have only used it for wine, which usually has a mix of tartaric and malic acid. The real trick with cider is to use fully ripened apples. Apart from windfalls, I only pick my apples in November. Cider (bittersweet) apples are of course the best. I test both the total acidity (by titration) and the pH (digital tester).

 

[pomme homme]

Thank you, Tony. Whilst I'm tempted to develop the malic acid point here, that would be too tangential and so I'd better do it elsewhere.

 

[pomme homme]

Further to my posts of last August, I tried immersing the barrels in a friend's swimming pool. It was the devil's own job to make them sink and almost impossible to get them out of the pool when they were full. Eventually, using a length of old carpet to protect the edges of the pool, we managed to get the barrels out with a winch. And when we stood them upright, guess what? They leaked like a sieve!

Maybe the barrels needed longer than a week submerged in order to take up water and for the wood to swell. But if so, how long? What's more, as the barrels had dried out their iron bands had slipped. Using a wooden chock and a hammer, I had tried to drive them back into place on the barrels but I had only partial success. And when they came out of the pool, the bands had slipped back - which doesn't exactly help when your trying to make them watertight! But the wood must have taken up some water and swollen as my subsequent attempts to drive the bands back into place achieved little or nothing!

I think that I've come to the realisation that if one is going to store a barrel, it needs to be stored with a full liquid content to keep it from drying out and the staves shrinking - and that if one doesn't do so, the risk is that the barrel will be rendered unusable. And that's what, I think, my barrels now are. But I'm not bothered. Only this week I've found a source of ex-vineyard 225 litre wooden barrels, in good and watertight condition, for 20€ each. Eat your heart out, British cider makers!

 

[Davemc]

If they have been soaking for a week it is unlikley soaking for any longer would work. When we bought ex whiskey casks that were dry we alway knicked them down and then remade them into casks rejointing each stave to make them tight. If you can source ex vinyard casks for 20 euros you're on a winner. Just get them filled with water if not using them right away.

 

[tonyhibbett]

I would guess that barrels that size would take a long time to rehydrate. The bands are fitted when hot, then fit tight as they shrink when cold. Wineries dispose of barrels when the cease to impart flavour, or if they have converted to using stainless steel tanks. Barrels need not be completely full of water when stored. I tend to keep mine full of wine until I have enough to refill them and enough empty bottles to fill. Due to a dreadful harvest this year, last year's batch will have to spend another year in the barrel, which is no bad thing.

 

[pomme homme]

Crikey, Tony. I haven't harvested my grapes yet. After the long, dry summer we've had, I'm hoping for an above average wine from both my white and red vines. But, I fear, neither will produce sufficient to fill a 225 litre barrel - unfortunately!

 

[tonyhibbett]

I've had a severe attack of what appears to be downy mildew at the vineyard. Never been a problem before, only powdery mildew, which I have learned to control. Lost 90% of the crop. Fortunately the home vines, just a mile away, are unaffected but yield is only a third of last year's. My largest barrel is 60 litres and even that size is a challenge to fill!

 

[Davemc]

I would guess that barrels that size would take a long time to rehydrate. The bands are fitted when hot, then fit tight as they shrink when cold. Wineries dispose of barrels when the cease to impart flavour, or if they have converted to using stainless steel tanks. Barrels need not be completely full of water when stored. I tend to keep mine full of wine until I have enough to refill them and enough empty bottles to fill. Due to a dreadful harvest this year, last year's batch will have to spend another year in the barrel, which is no bad thing.

It's wheelrights that fit the bands hot, Coopers make them to fit from cold steel and drive them tight with a hammer and driver and they should remain tight as long as the wood doesn't dry out. We also used to make large wooden vats for breweries, chemical plants and cider makers. If they were still leaking after a week of being filled they needed tightening as the wood won't swell much more.