What fermentation temp control swings are acceptable?

[The Baron]

I am not allowed a brew fridge "SWMBO" I would love one but it is hard to find the space for a fixed item.
I actually have a old fridge in my workshop but as usual no room to use it properly it is just shoved in there.
So I brew with appropriate yeasts and use my garage which is about 16c at the moment and the kitchen dependent on weather temps. That is why I use Kveik for my IPA's usually in the kitchen and I have a plate warmer that is wrapped around the FV so I can keep the temp high for the Kveik. I then use different yeasts for Ales/Bitters and just use the appropriate rooms.
The only one I do struggle with is Lagers which are really a no in the summer months but now I have just started using NovoLager yeast for them which has now stretched the brewing time so that only the hottest months are not in the Lager brewing period.
I currently have the Novo in a Lager @ just below 17c so well within its brewing temps.
Not perfect but I can usually keep my brews there or there about so it is possible to work around it most of the time

 

[user 47834]

Yup. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough.

 

[JockyBrewer]

The only one I do struggle with is Lagers which are really a no in the summer months but now I have just started using NovoLager yeast for them which has now stretched the brewing time so that only the hottest months are not in the Lager brewing period.
I currently have the Novo in a Lager @ just below 17c so well within its brewing temps.
Not perfect but I can usually keep my brews there or there about so it is possible to work around it most of the time

The clean ale yeasts like US-05 or Nottingham will make a good lager too. The increased maltiness over commercial macro lagers more than makes up for any missing yeast character, and personally I've found that they're less finicky. I have a personal hate for sulphur in beer, which is fairly common among lager yeasts.

I've brewed an award winning American Light lager using Wyeast 1056 ale yeast (similar to US-05), starting at 16C: Tastes Like Freedom - London Amateur Brewers Wiki

 

[The Baron]

Hi Jocky Novolager does not produce that sulphur smell/taste so they say thats one of the reasons I have given it a try.
Mine is kegged and maturing at the moment, I have also just done a Helles style with the same yeast too which is fermenting now

 

[user 47834]

Hi Jocky Novolager does not produce that sulphur smell/taste so they say thats one of the reasons I have given it a try.
Mine is kegged and maturing at the moment, I have also just done a Helles style with the same yeast too which is fermenting now

Any hint of green apples taste with Nova?

 

[JockyBrewer]

Cool, I will have to give Novalager a go.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Is now a good time to mention I've just received a Grainfather GC2 glycol chiller


I have been brewing for 13 years, and have gone through every stage of temperature control, so I think I've earned it:
- Ambient in a cool place
- Heat belt with home made ATC800 temperature controller (Inkbird didn't exist then).
- Swamp cooler with fan controlled by inkbird
- Fridge, with heater inside (for the past 8 years)
- And now a glycol chiller

 

[The Baron]

Any hint of green apples taste with Nova?

I have not as yet I think it can happen at the higher temps but to be honest I have only had a taster as its kegged and maturing and all seemed well but i will report back when I crack the keg in about 5 weeks

 

[MashBag]

Is now a good time to mention I've just received a Grainfather GC2 glycol chiller


I have been brewing for 13 years, and have gone through every stage of temperature control, so I think I've earned it:
- Ambient in a cool place
- Heat belt with home made ATC800 temperature controller (Inkbird didn't exist then).
- Swamp cooler with fan controlled by inkbird
- Fridge, with heater inside (for the past 8 years)
- And now a glycol chiller

I think you have earned it too. Presumably you use that for absolute control of heating & cooling?

 

[JockyBrewer]

I think you have earned it too. Presumably you use that for absolute control of heating & cooling?

Well that’s the hope!

The Grainfather conical has a temperature controller and built in heater, and the glycol chiller just integrates with it.

It won’t automatically make my beer better, but gives me a few extra brewing tricks. Very much a case of diminishing returns though - the fridge with a heater in it was much better value in that regard.

 

[user 47834]

Well that’s the hope!

The Grainfather conical has a temperature controller and built in heater, and the glycol chiller just integrates with it.

It won’t automatically make my beer better, but gives me a few extra brewing tricks. Very much a case of diminishing returns though - the fridge with a heater in it was much better value in that regard.

Yes, but... *shiny*

 

[dad_of_jon]

There’s a lot of truth in what’s already been said.
At the end of the day FV temperature control is certainly not essential. But it does give you more flexibility as to what styles you can brew and condition at different times of the year.

+1

I have kviek waiting to be brewed later on this year when we have a 3 day heatwave :-) If I just liked lager using proper lager yeast i'd be screwed. As I enjoy a wide range of styles I plan for the correct temperature window I also have a few locations in the house I can place the fv to help out with that. no fridge or heat belt/pad/jacket either.



@foxy - Whilst striving for the best you can do is my aim always, or toyota's aim for perfection (which can never be achieved but the struggle itself gives a superior result to not trying for perfection) there are other aspects to your life which compete and therefore I take a pragmatic approach.
sure I can make better beer , but what about the impact that has on the rest of my life. So my question is not is this the best beer I can make? The answer is no, but is this a beer I really enjoy - if the answer is yes. I leave it there. Tweaking it further I have found is a law of diminishing returns.
I've tried to make tripels a few times and whilst improving each time it's a waste of a brewing slot for me when I can buy so many better ones from the supermarket. So I've given up on them. My impy's I like so much I rarely buy those as I find many worse or no better than mine.
Next is a dipa - first proper attempt. think I added a bit too much gypsum but otherwise next time round I should have one that will save my buying £4 cans of them in the supermarket.
However after 3 attempts I finally beat Aventinus - I've tried a few times because it's not easy to buy locally.
Bottle shop owner confirmed they preferred mine as do I. So a minor tweak perhaps next time but why mess with a winning formula?

 

[JockyBrewer]

+1

I have kviek waiting to be brewed later on this year when we have a 3 day heatwave :-) If I just liked lager using proper lager yeast i'd be screwed. As I enjoy a wide range of styles I plan for the correct temperature window I also have a few locations in the house I can place the fv to help out with that. no fridge or heat belt/pad/jacket either.



@foxy - Whilst striving for the best you can do is my aim always, or toyota's aim for perfection (which can never be achieved but the struggle itself gives a superior result to not trying for perfection) there are other aspects to your life which compete and therefore I take a pragmatic approach.
sure I can make better beer , but what about the impact that has on the rest of my life. So my question is not is this the best beer I can make? The answer is no, but is this a beer I really enjoy - if the answer is yes. I leave it there. Tweaking it further I have found is a law of diminishing returns.
I've tried to make tripels a few times and whilst improving each time it's a waste of a brewing slot for me when I can buy so many better ones from the supermarket. So I've given up on them. My impy's I like so much I rarely buy those as I find many worse or no better than mine.
Next is a dipa - first proper attempt. think I added a bit too much gypsum but otherwise next time round I should have one that will save my buying £4 cans of them in the supermarket.
However after 3 attempts I finally beat Aventinus - I've tried a few times because it's not easy to buy locally.
Bottle shop owner confirmed they preferred mine as do I. So a minor tweak perhaps next time but why mess with a winning formula?

View attachment 86268

Love Aventinus and would love to know your recipe if willing to share (pretty please!).

 

[Alastair70]

Is now a good time to mention I've just received a Grainfather GC2 glycol chiller

Nice! You will make some beers much better with glycol control, the banana bomb Weisenbock I sent you a while back is a case in point. All year round lager brewing is the other obvious advantage. But for all the other brews, simple sensible steps at temp control are more than enough to deliver a great end result.

 

[Birdsnestbrewery]

Well that’s the hope!

The Grainfather conical has a temperature controller and built in heater, and the glycol chiller just integrates with it.

It won’t automatically make my beer better, but gives me a few extra brewing tricks. Very much a case of diminishing returns though - the fridge with a heater in it was much better value in that regard.

The Grainfather conical FV works well with a shelf cooler using the Grainfather pump kit. I use it with just water, for ale fermentation temperatures it's fine.
The FV is not cheap but after getting caught out by a too-warm ferment in summer 2020 I took the plunge. I think it's pretty reasonable value for an FV with heating and cooling capability. A shelf cooler off ebay made it more cost effective than a GF glycol chiller.

 

[evil.soup]

I have not as yet I think it can happen at the higher temps but to be honest I have only had a taster as its kegged and maturing and all seemed well but i will report back when I crack the keg in about 5 weeks

I have used Novalager for my first kit along with some Hersbrucker hops, a taste at maybe day 12 of fermentation I thought it was a little fruity, but when bottling on day 16, it seemed to have dissipated. I also brewed at a pretty steady 17 degrees so it will be interesting to see what it is like in comparison to yours. I will give some a go weekend after next, that will be almost 3 weeks in the bottle, still very young, but should be a good point for a taste test.

As things are warming up now, I am going to get a coopers Irish Stout kit going this weekend since I don't have any temp control and will be using the standard coopers yeast this time.

 

[JockyBrewer]

The Grainfather conical FV works well with a shelf cooler using the Grainfather pump kit. I use it with just water, for ale fermentation temperatures it's fine.
The FV is not cheap but after getting caught out by a too-warm ferment in summer 2020 I took the plunge. I think it's pretty reasonable value for an FV with heating and cooling capability. A shelf cooler off ebay made it more cost effective than a GF glycol chiller.

I know someone else who got a Hailea aquarium chiller for under £200 on eBay and uses that to cool with the GF pump kit.

Much cheaper than the glycol chiller, but noisier and has more hoses and cables flapping about.

 

[Vinylwasp]

Fermentation is where the wort becomes beer, so I've taken a very different approach to most in building my home brewery from the start with temperature control in the fermentation process, for 3 reasons.

1.) Flavour. I'm brewing a Weizen atm, and I'm using Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen which has an optimal range of 18-24c. Wyeast say "This yeast strain produces a beautiful and delicate balance of banana esters and clove phenolics. The balance can be manipulated towards ester production through increasing the fermentation temperature, increasing the wort density, and decreasing the pitch rate." For this brew I want to bring the clove forward so I want to keep the temp in the lower end of that the range so I'm fermenting at 18.5c to maximize the yeast's potential to create clove notes from the Ferulic rest I did.

2.) Consistency. I brew in my garage which has pretty variable temperature so if I want one batch to taste like the next I need to have a consistent process, and I think this is a strong reason to focus on temp control. For my first Weizen I fermented at 19c and for my second I tried to improve the taste by following the guidance in the Electric Brewery Weizen recipe and fermented at 16.6C. The second beer's fermentation was flat and stifled, and the beer was nowhere near as good as the one fermented just 2.5c warmer at 19c.

3.) You can brew what you like when you want.

It's all horses for courses though so there's no right answer, just what's right for you and the beers you want to drink.

 

[Sadfield]

Satan has his gloves and scarf on. So here's a link to Brulosphy...

https://brulosophy.com/2017/05/08/f...-pt-7-stable-vs-variable-exbeeriment-results/
I actually find this one quite interesting as they result to really forcing the variance rather than just not doing something.

Comes with the usually caveat of it being one very small data point in the general scheme of things. I won't be selling my fermentation fridge off the back of it.

Having always used temperature control until recently, it fits with my experience, that if I've made good wort and pitch enough viable yeast then rigidly sticking to a set temperature becomes less critical.

 

[Vinylwasp]

Fermentation is where the wort becomes beer, so I've taken a very different approach to most in building my home brewery from the start with temperature control in the fermentation process, for 3 reasons.

1.) Flavour. I'm brewing a Weizen atm, and I'm using Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen which has an optimal range of 18-24c. Wyeast say "This yeast strain produces a beautiful and delicate balance of banana esters and clove phenolics. The balance can be manipulated towards ester production through increasing the fermentation temperature, increasing the wort density, and decreasing the pitch rate." For this brew I want to bring the clove forward so I want to keep the temp in the lower end of that the range so I'm fermenting at 18.5c to maximize the yeast's potential to create clove notes from the Ferulic rest I did.

2.) Consistency. I brew in my garage which has pretty variable temperature so if I want one batch to taste like the next I need to have a consistent process, and I think this is a strong reason to focus on temp control. For my first Weizen I fermented at 19c and for my second I tried to improve the taste by following the guidance in the Electric Brewery Weizen recipe and fermented at 16.6C. The second beer's fermentation was flat and stifled, and the beer was nowhere near as good as the one fermented just 2.5c warmer at 19c.

3.) You can brew what you like when you want.

It's all horses for courses though so there's no right answer, just what's right for you and the beers you want to drink.

Satan has his gloves and scarf on. So here's a link to Brulosphy...

https://brulosophy.com/2017/05/08/f...-pt-7-stable-vs-variable-exbeeriment-results/
I actually find this one quite interesting as they result to really forcing the variance rather than just not doing something.

Comes with the usually caveat of it being one very small data point in the general scheme of things. I won't be selling my fermentation fridge off the back of it.

Having always used temperature control until recently, it fits with my experience, that if I've made good wort and pitch enough viable yeast then rigidly sticking to a set temperature becomes less critical.

Interesting, and there's a lot of good feedback in the comments. Like you say this is one data point and I think the xbt could have been a little better designed because both beers were pitched at 19c which is is in the center of the range for that yeast (Temperature Range: 60-72F, 15-22C), and a lot happens in the 1st exponential phase where the variable fermentation batch would still have spent a lot of time rising from 19 to 30C. Given how high he went I wonder whether the yeast produced diacetyl and then cleaned it up during each cycle as well? I guess an 11degre range seemed valid where he lives. As others commented, I think you'd get different results (like mine) with a more yeast driven beer flavour profile like a Weizen than the cleaner chico yeast he used, and something that is not dry hopped would have been a better style to use letting the malts and yeast drive the flavour.

So my guess is different yeasts and different styles would show different sensitivities to that xbt, and what I love about this new hobby is that there's so much to learn, and so many ways to tweak your brew. Cheers