British Lager - A Rant

[Notlaw]

For a good part of my life I couldn't be bothered with the terrible beers that could be obtained around here. They were thin and washed out and to be honest, I just thought that's what beer was and I didn't expect anything different. Even five years ago I was happy with three pints of Carling at a curry house and a nice Chicken Bhuna to wash down with it. There has been a revelation in recent years for me. I remember going into the Brandling Villa with my eldest son and having a pint of some sort of American Pale Ale style beer which was a guest beer, I felt like I was one of those characters in the Vikings who had gone to Valhalla to spend eternity at a party with the gods.

I always liked the Brandling Villa, do they still do their beer and sausage festival? I was annihilated at that a few years back.

 

[CreweBrewer]

Tony1951: I had the kind of misfortune to begin my beer drinking when Boddingtons was a fantastic beer, and different from anything else. Light, hoppy and actually bitter. It quickly deteriorated in the 80s and I spent two decades knowing beer could be lovely but rarely drinking anything even vaguely lovely. Then one day around 1998 a tiny bar opened around the corner from my then house and I met some friends there to check it out. I asked for a pint of IPA, went and sat down, took a gulp and blurted out something like WOR! Mates looked at me so I said, "that's as good as Boddingtons at its best!" Possibly better! It was a life changing moment, I never looked back, discovered other micro breweries and things have got better and better. Where I live there are loads of bars now selling craft beer, Chorlton is like nowhere else, a suburb of Manchester that has about 25-30 bars competing with each other. Including that first one, the Marble Beerhouse, and it still sells Lagonda IPA, though it's a bit different now. And weirdly, after I separated from my Mrs, she got together with the bar manager there at the time, so we both found what we were looking for in there!

Reading this I knew it'd be Marble before I got to the end. Good man! :-D

 

[nbpicklesno2]

55 years on this planet and I've never been to Manchester.

 

[clibit]

55 years on this planet and I've never been to Manchester.

The Marble Arch pub in town, not far from the Manchester Arena and the old Strangeways Boddingtons brewery site, is probably the best reason to visit Manchester. A row of great beers inside a lovely old tiled Victorian pub. The damage that was done to Manchester beer by Whitbread buying out Boddingtons was eventually repaired by Marble, IMO, very close to the old brewery site. Marble has changed head brewer several times, other great breweries have been spawned by ex-brewers, but the Marble beer has stayed good. And one of the previous brewers recently returned. James Kemp, who left Marble I believe to go to Thornbridge, which had a great spell (but don't impress me that much now) then Buxton, I think, also excellent, and now back to Marble. I read on his blog that he got hold of the yeast from Holt's brewery in Manchester, and says it's the best yeast for hop forward beers he has come across.

 

[CreweBrewer]

Black Jacks brewery is right near Marble too. Just down the hill toward the railway arches.

 

[clibit]

Black Jacks brewery is right near Marble too. Just down the hill toward the railway arches.

Yes, that chap left the Marble brewery and set up round the corner. Loads of breweries in central Manchester now, some good ones like Cloudwater, Track and Squawk.

 

[Tony1951]

I read on his blog that he got hold of the yeast from Holt's brewery in Manchester, and says it's the best yeast for hop forward beers he has come across.

Yeast selection is the place I should start to focus on for the second year of my new part time brewing career. Maybe Nottingham for English Pale Ales and US05 for the American sort isn't the only way I should be looking.

 

[Tony1951]

I always liked the Brandling Villa, do they still do their beer and sausage festival? I was annihilated at that a few years back.

I don't know about that. I don't go there that much, but it is just about the only pub I do go to now. It's about a half a mile from my house so it's an easy toddle and the place is full of dogs so I can take my terrier down there if I want. I've had a few of their burger meals and a few jars of some nice beers. Worst thing from my point of view is that they change them all the time so if you go there three weeks after finding a really nice beer, you can't get it next time. They do call them 'guest ales' though so I suppose the intention is to ring the changes. It annoys the heck out of me though if I have found a gem on the last visit. I tend to generally go there after my sons ring up and say they are down there and do I fancy a pint.

 

[clibit]

Yeast selection is the place I should start to focus on for the second year of my new part time brewing career. Maybe Nottingham for English Pale Ales and US05 for the American sort isn't the only way I should be looking.

Both those yeasts are very neutral and attenuate a lot. You should try a more characterful English yeast. A beer made well from good quality English hops, malts and yeast is a great thing, and right up your street I reckon. And learning how to ferment beers with interesting yeasts is the real skill of brewing, I suspect. And where great rewards await.

 

[Tony1951]

Both those yeasts are very neutral and attenuate a lot. You should try a more characterful English yeast. A beer made well from good quality English hops, malts and yeast is a great thing, and right up your street I reckon. And learning how to ferment beers with interesting yeasts is the real skill of brewing, I suspect. And where great rewards await.

Make me a recommendation for an English IPA and I'll give it a try in the next few weeks.

I'm due to make another APA next, though I have a stonker APA in the FV just now.

I'm also going to have to start reducing the amount of pale malt in my brews because they are a bit on the too strong side. I'll maybe go down to 4kg from 6kg or around that.

 

[clibit]

Make me a recommendation for an English IPA and I'll give it a try in the next few weeks.

I'm due to make another APA next, though I have a stonker APA in the FV just now.

I'm also going to have to start reducing the amount of pale malt in my brews because they are a bit on the too strong side. I'll maybe go down to 4kg from 6kg or around that.

English IPAs usually have a high attenuation, fairly neutral yeast. The most popular English yeast is WLP002/Wyeast 1968, because it has character, it ferments really quickly and it drops out really clear. Temperature makes a big difference to its flavour profile. Above 20ish you get a lot of esters, below it's much cleaner. People report widely varying attenuation with it. The only issie is that it can produce a lot of diacetyl - my first beer with it tasted like buttery popcorn. So a diacetyl rest can be a necessary step. But you also need to be able to manage the temperature reasonably well.

 

[mike77]

Thank your lucky stars you don't live here. They still sell Harp.....

I was in Dublin and they still sell Harp. They even have the cheek to label/advertise it as "craft lager" which it certainly isn't.

 

[clibit]

Daft lager more like. :-?

 

[Notlaw]

Harp? Jesus, that stuff was a crime against humanity last time I had it. Which was not long after it got rebranded with green instead of blue and was called Harp Irish Lager, instead of just Harp Lager. ****.

 

[ManseMasher]

Then there's Tennants - the best selling point was the women on the cans, because it was pure, true, unadulterated cats p**s.

 

[terrym]

Then there's Tennants - the best selling point was the women on the cans, because it was pure, true, unadulterated cats p**s.

It's actually Tennents, though the facts are the same :thumb:
Tennants was a now long gone Sheffield brewer who received a good part of my student grant :whistle:. They also supplied me and my group with yeast which we cadged when we started up in home brewing.

 

[ManseMasher]

I stand corrected Sir....and I therefore am honour bound to point out your spelling of same in your second sentence!!

 

[Tony1951]

English IPAs usually have a high attenuation, fairly neutral yeast. The most popular English yeast is WLP002/Wyeast 1968, because it has character, it ferments really quickly and it drops out really clear. Temperature makes a big difference to its flavour profile. Above 20ish you get a lot of esters, below it's much cleaner. People report widely varying attenuation with it. The only issie is that it can produce a lot of diacetyl - my first beer with it tasted like buttery popcorn. So a diacetyl rest can be a necessary step. But you also need to be able to manage the temperature reasonably well.

I'll try and source some of it.

Just tried my latest APA with my son. It is only about nine days into its fermentation with USO5, but it has a distinctly butter-scotch taste about it. This is the first time this has happened for me. The temperature was about 20 - 21 for the first six days and 22 after. Maybe I have let it get too warm.

 

[clibit]

I'll try and source some of it.

Just tried my latest APA with my son. It is only about nine days into its fermentation with USO5, but it has a distinctly butter-scotch taste about it. This is the first time this has happened for me. The temperature was about 20 - 21 for the first six days and 22 after. Maybe I have let it get too warm.

That's unusual with US05, never heard of that happening.

 

[MyQul]

I'll try and source some of it.

Just tried my latest APA with my son. It is only about nine days into its fermentation with USO5, but it has a distinctly butter-scotch taste about it. This is the first time this has happened for me. The temperature was about 20 - 21 for the first six days and 22 after. Maybe I have let it get too warm.

WLP002/WY1968 is the fullers strain. You can culture it up from a bottle of 1845 and as I mentioned elswhere on the forum if you use your own wort you wont have to pay for DME

The butter scotch taste is diacytyl. Sorry I don't quite understand, is it still in the FV? If it is just leave it there, perhaps rouse the yeast. The yeast should clean itself up. If you bottled your beer, give them a shake to resuspend the yeast and stick them somewhere warm if you can, again the yeast should reabsorb the diacytl