I didn't say it .... this time!

welly3 · Jul 25, 2018

BeerCat said:
Seems to be your claiming that they are trustworthy. Where are the citations for that.

You're the one making the claim that he is being paid to lie. I've got no reason to disbelieve him. You obviously do, based on your inside information that he's being paid to lie. I'm quite happy to be corrected.

Just to clarify, I'm not making any claim he is trustworthy just that I have no evidence or reason to believe this particular person is not. So with your assertion he's being paid to lie, then you must have some reason or evidence or anything to give you that suggestion. Otherwise it's meaningless conjecture.

Oneiroi · Jul 25, 2018

Cwrw666 said:
Here's my opinion: when we crash out of the EU there'll be a period of chaos for a while, our economy will dip and then slowly recover to much as it is now.

The poor will still be poor. The rich still rich. C'est la vie...

For the most part I agree with this. My prediction was that the economy would be moderately worse of in the short and medium terms and mildy worse of in the long term. I personally didn't think the benefits of leaving were worth that, but I can understand that some would see it as an acceptable cost for what they see as the benefits.

I'm more worried about the second part. Poor trade deals as a result of desperation and weak bargaining position meaning more power to multinationals and capital, and less to labour (not the party) and consumers. To me it seems likely there will be reductions in the protections for workers, consumers and the environment coupled with short term economic harm reducing gov coffers and causing (more) long term harm to the public services people depend on (which also increases the chance of more PFI deals/Private sell offs/terrible gov contracts).

In other words, more inquality, more insecurity and somehow even more corporate behemoths leeching money from us and our economy.

GerritT · Jul 25, 2018

MyQul said:
London is even more full of tourists taking advantage of the weak pound

Not the tourists you might want. You want the tourists that already came when the pound was expensive.

lancon · Jul 25, 2018

what did we vote for?

MyQul · Jul 25, 2018

lancon said:
what did we vote for?

Cameron thought the referendum would shut the Eurosceptics i his party up once and for all. But it all went horribly wrong. Didnt think us peons got to decide something because the politcians actually wanted to give us a free choice on anything did you?

lancon · Jul 25, 2018

well according to this video we were voting to stay in the single market and cstom union, see them one after another
https://twitter.com/Open_Britain/status/799198320623321088?s=09 don't know how this has all been forgotten...

Dutto · Jul 25, 2018

Chippy_Tea said:
........... you really do have low opinion of those that voted leave.

Oh dear! Wherever and whenever did I say that I had a "... low opinion of those that voted leave."?

Please elucidate because the only people I have a "low opinion" of are definitely not my friends; and a number of them voted Leave.

To clarify my position, I do consider that:

Many of the people who urged the voters to vote Leave did so because they themselves would benefit from the act.
In many cases, the people who voted Leave did so without considering the consequences.

So, may we please stop the personal abuse before it is used as a reason for shutting down the Thread. :thumb:

Chippy_Tea · Jul 25, 2018

You say many of the leave voters voted out without considering the concequences you do not know this is a fact therefore it shows you have a low opinion of the average leave voter.

One thing is for sure they didn't vote for the **** version of Brexit the government are now negotiating.

Why do you consider my earlier comment personal abuse?

simon12 · Jul 25, 2018

My opinion (obviously not "expert") is remain is good for big business and they get a good supply of cheap labour as do public services this is also good for consumers who get cheaper prices this is also helped by free trade deals though its possible we could get better with non EU countries if we are outside. But its bad for small businesses as they have to spend much more to conform to all the regulations and many likely don't even start due to them, its bad for low wage workers who get there wages pulled down (or just not rise) especially in the construction industry where many sites English is barely spoken. Its mainly a matter of what we (or the British government) do to take advantage of leave we just need to try not to get the worst of both ie the chequers agreement. I would also note as i'm sure you all know Europe is starting to fall apart anyway, I thing it was a good concept to start with but got loaded with to much bureaucracy and would have been better as just about trade. I also think the Euro was a bad idea from the start but that would need its own thread.

lancon · Jul 25, 2018

I think if you look at and listen to what the Leave campaigners said during the campaign the idea of what was been voted for had nothing to do with the current state of affairs, with Farage suggesting the Norway model, as did others

Slid · Jul 25, 2018

The vote was basically about immigration, for a substantial proportion of the Leave vote. It was their first, last and only chance to tell the political establishment how aggrieved the people were at being over-run.
The politicians have ignored them and the politicians were wrong.
All the politicians are irritated at their lack of career opportunities post Brexit and will seek to punish the populace for this crime above all else.
They don't care about any of us, only themselves, and would flood the country with 10m immigrants if they thought it might further their own ends.

Dutto · Jul 25, 2018

Chippy_Tea said:
............ you really do have low opinion of those that voted leave.

Chippy_Tea said:
...........

Why do you consider my earlier comment personal abuse?

Perhaps I'm being a bit precious but the statement ".... you really do have a low opinion of those that voted leave." plus a 'rolleye' smiley didn't go down well with me. Mainly because nowhere in this or any other Post have I stated such a thing, especially as the Post was made in response to my statement:

"Personally, I believe people with vested interests created and maintain the argument that the UK should leave the EU.

Leaving the EU will benefit these people at the cost of the general public."

... and this statement was reiterated above with ...

"To clarify my position, I do consider that:

Many of the people who urged the voters to vote Leave did so because they themselves would benefit from the act.
In many cases, the people who voted Leave did so without considering the consequences."

With regard to the last sentence, you yourself state ...

"One thing is for sure they didn't vote for the **** version of Brexit the government are now negotiating."

... which is one of the consequences that is an obvious worry to all of us.

BTW, the people I have a "low opinion of" is usually confined to those who commit immoral and/or illegal acts ...

... and I've even been known to condone some of those! :laugh8:

simon12 · Jul 25, 2018

immigration is the main thing that affects people directly that they can see so its no surprise.

MyQul · Jul 25, 2018

Hostility to immigraton is the syptom not the cause. The cause is lack of access to services and proper training for work. If successive governments had properly funded and run housing, health care, social care, education and training no one would care about how many immigrants are here. But of course they dont be cause as Slid says they dont care about the population. They dont live in the communities that most people live in so dont see the effect of their decisions . They only care how much money they can make.
Have a look here at how unrepresentative politicians are of the general population. The figures are from around 2017 but I doubt much has changed https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/ed...f-touch-uk-politicians-are-from-everyone-else

Dutto · Jul 25, 2018

Personally, with regard to immigration, my main worry is that the Government has failed to prevent ILLEGAL immigration.

As far back as 2005 the estimation of illegal immigrants in the UK was between 310,000 and 570,000. The current "best estimate" is between 300,000 and over 1,000,000 illegal immigrants in the UK.

For an island nation this is a shameful statistic that has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

How about this article from The Sun earlier this year ...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/61357...migrants-arrested-in-britain-over-four-years/

... or this one from the BBC ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43837834

Enjoy! :thumb:

Chippy_Tea · Jul 26, 2018

lancon said:
I think if you look at and listen to what the Leave campaigners said during the campaign the idea of what was been voted for had nothing to do with the current state of affairs, with Farage suggesting the Norway model, as did others

:hat:

Chippy_Tea · Jul 26, 2018

As you will see when you watch the news we are stockpiling medical supplies ready for a no vote so it looks like the government have already decided the way this will end.

MyQul · Jul 26, 2018

oh, well another Brexit thread bites the dust.

I closed this one due to personal insults btw, which Ive removed

@Dutto if you start another brexit thread I will personally come up to you house and infest all your grain stash with weevils :p

Chippy_Tea · Jul 26, 2018

We have closed and deleted several Brexit threads recently for the reasons above and are now discussing the subject in the mods area while we are making a decision could I ask members not to open any more Brexit discussion threads, thanks.

I didn't say it .... this time!

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