AG No. 7 Belgian Saison

[Greenhorn]

This is the first of three 20L barrel batches I'm doing for my 40th in October. Only having the capacity for a 15L brew, I'm doing them as sort of partials, making up the rest of the volume and then bumping the gravity back up with DME.

so this one....

is based on a leffe recipe I found, but when I plugged it into brewers friend, it suggested a saison, with a bit of tweaking.

3.3KG Belgian Pils
0.34kg Munich
0.1kg Belgian biscuit
0.075kg acidulated

350G of demerara sugar @ 15 min

DME as needed post cooling.

38g Styrian Golding @ 60min
25g Saaz @ 30 min.

Wyeast 3724

I heated 10.5L of strike water to 80°c and mashed in hitting the target of 70°c bang on. Held for 45 min.

Sparged with 12L @ 76°c and collected 18L with a gravity of 1.04.

Boiled for 90 min, down to 15L with gravity of 1.058. bang on. Added 5L of water and 500G of extra light DME to keep the gravity.

I'd made up a stir plate starter two days previously and had turned it off as soon as I got up. By the time I pitched (2pm) it had settled out nicely. I drained most of the liquid and just pitched the slurry.

It's now in the FV at a balmy 32°c doing it's thing.

Next up is a another quick wheat beer, this saturday, for immediate consumption before cracking on with the next Birthday beer, a mega hoppy AIPA.

 

[strange-steve]

70° is a very high mash temperature, especially for a saison. I usually mash at 64° for a saison.

 

[Greenhorn]

70° is a very high mash temperature, especially for a saison. I usually mash at 64° for a saison.

Yeah, I thought that, but I'm pretty new to this and was following a recipe so who am I to argue.

From said recipe:

" The reason for mashing at 158 came from doing research into the style from somewhere that I can't even recall.

It may seem high, but the reason for doing so is that Beta Amylase enzymes denature at 158. This leaves more unfermentable long chain dextrins, you will have more "weight" and more mouthfeel with the 158f mash temp but about the same starting gravity, and the final gravity will be higher as well.

You get more mouthfeel this way so that when you add the table sugar to the boil, you get the gravity boost but it's not "thin and cidery" like happens with many beers when you boost with a simple sugar. With this higher temp mash there still is decent mouthfeel and even great lacing on the glass from the proteins."

so there you have it. Unfortunately I'll not find out how well it's worked until mid october.

 

[strange-steve]

Everything there is correct for sure, but I'm not sure it suits a saison style. If you've ever tasted Dupont which is the quintessential saison, it's light bodied and really dry. The dryness is important to a good saison, but the yeast actually prevents it from being watery.

 

[Greenhorn]

Well, it's all a learning curve. The important thing is that it tastes good, I suppose.

Maybe I'll have another go with a lower mash temp and compare the difference.

 

[Leon103]

32c seems very high to be fermenting at.

 

[IainM]

32c seems very high to be fermenting at.

3724 can go up to 35C.

 

[Greenhorn]

Yeah, I double checked it when I first saw this yeast. Apparently it kicks off well around 32°c but can get stuck at about 1.02. Bumping it up to 35°c and giving it a swill can apparently see it get all the way down to 1.004 or so.

will certainly be different.

 

[jceg316]

I'm really getting into my saisons of late and have been doing some research. Good saison yeast can be pushed up to 35°C as this really dries out the mouthfeel of the beer and ferments down really low. It's recommended to start the fermentation around 25°C and build up the temperature over time.

If this is your 7th all grain, there's no need to worry about things like this right now and you'll most probably have a great tasting saison anyway.

 

[Greenhorn]

....... It's recommended to start the fermentation around 25°C and build up the temperature over time.

Bugger.

I didn't read any of that and just started it at 32°c. It didn't really hit the ground running but is bubbling now.

Might I have stuffed it?

 

[jceg316]

Bugger.

I didn't read any of that and just started it at 32°c. It didn't really hit the ground running but is bubbling now.

Might I have stuffed it?

As I say I still think it will still come out a good beer, and with most off flavours leaving the beer a while will get rid of them.

Here's where my knowledge of particular yeasts gets a bit hazy, but fermenting at different temperatures will produce different flavours. With a saison, fermenting at cool ale temperatures (like 16-18°C) will produce a really subtle "saison" flavour and let the other ingredients shine through. Whereas fermenting hotter will bring the yeast flavours out more. The flavour profile is created in the first few days of fermentation.

I'm fermenting a saison right now with WLP566 Saison II. I've started at 25 and will ramp up to 32 over time, but that's just to dry out the beer and get a really low FG.

I do feel with saisons they've lost touch with their roots a lot of the time. They were made by taking whatever was left from the harvest and chucking it in a vat and hoping for the best. There was not temperature control other than the Belgian summer sun, which makes me think no 2 saisons made tasted anything alike. My point being, I'm sure it's fine!

 

[Leon103]

I'm really getting into my saisons of late and have been doing some research. Good saison yeast can be pushed up to 35°C as this really dries out the mouthfeel of the beer and ferments down really low. It's recommended to start the fermentation around 25°C and build up the temperature over time.

If this is your 7th all grain, there's no need to worry about things like this right now and you'll most probably have a great tasting saison anyway.

Just caught up in the thread and was about to say this. Bump it up every couple of days. I would knock it up to 35c at the end to really bring it down

 

[Greenhorn]

well having pitched at about 2.30pm on Tuesday it's now at 1.030, and tasting delicious, so it's clearly doing something.

 

[jceg316]

Good to hear! :thumb:

 

[Simonh82]

I think you could get some really funky flavours at the temperature, especially starting it high. The advice is generally start at 20 or so the let it rise into the high 20s or low 30s after 3 days.

If that's the Belgian Saison strain then one thing to bear in mind is that it is very sensitive to back pressure from an airlock. Take off the airlock and cover with sanitised foil and you could help avoid a stalled fermentation.

Listen to the one of the recent experimental brewing podcasts for some evidence to back this up https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/episode-18-saison-under-pressure.

 

[Greenhorn]

it started out at 1.058 and before we went on holiday lat weekend, it was down to 1.020.

I put the temp up to 34°c and get it a swill. Got back today and it's down to 1.014. Tasting lovely, slightly sour and the dryness is starting to come through.

 

[Greenhorn]

measured at 1.008 and still dropping, if slowly. Man, this is one thorough yeast.

Up to 6.6%. yikes.

 

[jceg316]

Doing what a saison yeast does best! They are best left longer than most other styles of you have the patience. One day I'm gonna leave one for a couple of months in primary and secondary, just don't have the patience right now or the fermenter space.