My second Partiel Mash: Saison

[mauromanca]

Hello dear friends HB,

thank you for give me some space for discuss about my next creature. As a prologue, I am an Italian man that lives in Edinburgh, but my English isn't quite clear in some occasion, so sorry if you find some errors.

Next week I will brew my next beer, a Belgian Style Saison in Partial Mash:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Estiu17
Author: Mauretto

Brew Method: Partial Mash
Style Name: Saison
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 8 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.058
Efficiency: 100% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.058
Final Gravity: 1.0??
ABV (standard): 5.8
IBU (tinseth): 33.56
SRM (ebcmorey): 13.34

FERMENTABLES:
1500 g - Liquid Malt Extract - Light - SG 1.030 (late addition) (40%)
1000 g - Dry Malt Extract - Wheat - SG 1.037(late addition) (27%)
750 g - Dry Malt Extract - Extra Light- SG 1.037 (20%)
80 g - American - Caramel / Crystal 75L - SG 1.005(2%)
400 g - Liquid Malt Extract - Munich - SG 1.030 (late addition) (11%)

HOPS:
32 g - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 20.2
25 g - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.5, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 7.8
10 g - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 1.28
BU/GU: 0.51


YEAST:
2 x Danstar - Belle Saison Yeast
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 85%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 17.22 - 23.89 C
Fermentation Temp: 18 C
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

About the recipe: all the SG for the ingredients has been modified in gr/Lt. Generally the SG in all the Brewing software is on ppG. But I brew in litres and I take quantities in gr or litres. That it is what my Italian mate on the italian forum teach me and I wish is correct.

So I will make a minimash with the grains for 30/40 minutes in 1.5 litres of water at 65/70 C. Then I take off the grain, without sparge because I not extract sugars from these grains but only color and flavor. Then I put 6.5 more in the pot, then I reach boiling and I put the DME extra light. The the hops for 60 min, 45 min and 5 minutes. When I am on the 50 minute I put as well the LME light, the LME munich,and the DME wheat. I cool the wort, good aeration and I pitch the yeast. 14 days at 20 degrees and then other 14 days in bottle at 20 degrees. After that at least 1 month a 8/10 degrees.

So, that's all folks. Sorry if I'am confused writing, but please, I applied in a big forum like that for know all the ideas that you can give me for learn much better to brew.

Thank you

 

[terrym]

From the ingredients listed you appear to be brewing an extract beer. There is no diastase present in the malt extract (apparently diastatic liquid malt extract is longer available in the UK) and there is no diastase in the crystal malt so there is no mashing involved only 'steeping' of the grains which you should carry out in water at about 65*C for about 30 mins before adding the liquor and spargings (washings) to the rest of the boil liquor. Don't boil the grains.
I am not sure what brewing software you use but I use Brewers Friend here
Beer Recipe Calculator - Brewer's Friend
I can't comment on the recipe but was under the impression that saison beers are brewed at higher temeratures than ales, so am puzzled as to why 18*C is specified. Others may be able to help on this.
And finally you are brewing a new 'creation' not 'creature' :thumb: and I hope it works out for you.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Hello dear friends HB,

thank you for give me some space for discuss about my next creature. As a prologue, I am an Italian man that lives in Edinburgh, but my English isn't quite clear in some occasion, so sorry if you find some errors.

Next week I will brew my next beer, a Belgian Style Saison in Partial Mash:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Estiu17
Author: Mauretto

Brew Method: Partial Mash
Style Name: Saison
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 8 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.058
Efficiency: 100% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.058
Final Gravity: 1.0??
ABV (standard): 5.8
IBU (tinseth): 33.56
SRM (ebcmorey): 13.34

FERMENTABLES:
1500 g - Liquid Malt Extract - Light - SG 1.030 (late addition) (40%)
1000 g - Dry Malt Extract - Wheat - SG 1.037(late addition) (27%)
750 g - Dry Malt Extract - Extra Light- SG 1.037 (20%)
80 g - American - Caramel / Crystal 75L - SG 1.005(2%)
400 g - Liquid Malt Extract - Munich - SG 1.030 (late addition) (11%)

HOPS:
32 g - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 20.2
25 g - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.5, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 7.8
10 g - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 1.28
BU/GU: 0.51


YEAST:
2 x Danstar - Belle Saison Yeast
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 85%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 17.22 - 23.89 C
Fermentation Temp: 18 C
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

About the recipe: all the SG for the ingredients has been modified in gr/Lt. Generally the SG in all the Brewing software is on ppG. But I brew in litres and I take quantities in gr or litres. That it is what my Italian mate on the italian forum teach me and I wish is correct.

So I will make a minimash with the grains for 30/40 minutes in 1.5 litres of water at 65/70 C. Then I take off the grain, without sparge because I not extract sugars from these grains but only color and flavor. Then I put 6.5 more in the pot, then I reach boiling and I put the DME extra light. The the hops for 60 min, 45 min and 5 minutes. When I am on the 50 minute I put as well the LME light, the LME munich,and the DME wheat. I cool the wort, good aeration and I pitch the yeast. 14 days at 20 degrees and then other 14 days in bottle at 20 degrees. After that at least 1 month a 8/10 degrees.

So, that's all folks. Sorry if I'am confused writing, but please, I applied in a big forum like that for know all the ideas that you can give me for learn much better to brew.

Thank you

you only need 1 packet of yeast if you're going to re-hydrate it as per the instructions. Maybe ferment it at 20-22 for more saison character.

I made a saison extract beer but with MJ's saison yeast, it took about 6-8 months to reach perfection. I did an 8 litre boil for 15 mins then left the hops for 20 mins after flameout. Strained them out and put all the rest of the extract into a FV and topped up to 22 litres.

I pitched re-hydrated yeast at 32 degrees which was fine because it was in the yeasts temperature range.

 

[mauromanca]

Thank you guys for your answers and your advises. @terrym

From the ingredients listed you appear to be brewing an extract beer.

Yes, the Saison should be brew just with extract, maybe with a bit of confusion, in Italy we refer to mode E+G (extract+grain) even when the beer is been made just by extract. I will change way to name it in Extract.

there is no diastase in the crystal malt so there is no mashing involved only 'steeping' of the grains which you should carry out in water at about 65*C for about 30 mins before adding the liquor and spargings (washings) to the rest of the boil liquor. Don't boil the grains.

I don't understand about the diastase, but after write this post I will learn about it. In my post as well I put that the grain should be just a little part (80 gr) and just for the flavor and the color. @terrym Do you think that I have to sparge the grains? In theory I don't extract any sugars by the Crystals. Please let me know

I am not sure what brewing software you use but I use Brewers Friend here
Beer Recipe Calculator - Brewer's Friend

I use as well Brewers Friend, and other 2: Brewonline.net and Brewplus.

I can't comment on the recipe but was under the impression that saison beers are brewed at higher temeratures than ales, so am puzzled as to why 18*C is specified.

Thank you for that, and checking the dad_of_jon answer I saw that I have to change the temperatures between 21 and 23*C.

And finally you are brewing a new 'creation' not 'creature'

I meant precisely Creature: as per a Living Creature :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Really thank you much for your answer, I will study for the best advice you have given me

 

[terrym]

I don't understand about the diastase, but after write this post I will learn about it. In my post as well I put that the grain should be just a little part (80 gr) and just for the flavor and the color. @terrym Do you think that I have to sparge the grains? In theory I don't extract any sugars by the Crystals. Please let me know

Mashing is a process where the starch in certain grains is converted to sugars by an enzyme called 'diastase'. 'Diastase' is actually a collective name for chemically different but very similar enzymes which do the same job but slightly differently. Diastase is found in malted barley but not all grains have it. Diastase is destroyed by heat and so, for example, when malted barley is kilned to form darker malts like crystal malt or in extreme black malt the diastase is lost. Pale malt contains diastase because it has not been kilned and so usually forms the basis of a mash. Sometimes other grains like torrified wheat (which has no diastase) are added to the mash and the diastase from the pale malt is then used to convert the wheat starch to fermentable sugars.
Kilned grains are added to the brew for sweetness, flavour, colour and mouthfeel in varying proportions according to the type. Mashing makes no change to them chemically, because the starch has already been changed to sugars although some of the sugars are not fermentable. The higher the kilning temperature the less sugar is present, so darker malts are used more for flavour and colour rather than sweetness.
Crystal malt, like you are proposing to use contains sugars and you must steep the grain in hot water to dissolve the sugar into solution. I suggested 65*C for 30 minutes. The liquor is separated from the spent grain, the spent grain is sparged or washed by hot water at 80*C or thereabouts and the liquor then goes into the boil, and the grain husks are discarded. If grain is boiled tannins may be released which may introduce unwanted bitterness to the beer.
Hope this helps

 

[mauromanca]

Thank you terrym, I think this is really useful for me.

 

[mauromanca]

Now the answer to the dad_of_jon: first of all, thank you for your answer.

you only need 1 packet of yeast if you're going to re-hydrate it as per the instructions. Maybe ferment it at 20-22 for more saison character.

I used the pitching calculator http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/?og=NaN&units=metric&batchsize=21.00&sugarscale=sg&pitchrate=&yeasttype=dry and when I insert the cell density, from the Danstar Lallemand's sheet is 5*10 bill. The calculator give me to put 22 grams to reach the Target Pitch Rate Cells. But I prefer to follow the instruction from someone like you that used the yeast.

I made a saison extract beer but with MJ's saison yeast, it took about 6-8 months to reach perfection. I did an 8 litre boil for 15 mins then left the hops for 20 mins after flameout. Strained them out and put all the rest of the extract into a FV and topped up to 22 litres.

I pitched re-hydrated yeast at 32 degrees which was fine because it was in the yeasts temperature range.

Thank for the ideas, I will follow the instruction about the temperature and the re-hydratation