Batch vs. Fly

[Moley]

Help me out here guys, I'm still a newcomer to AG and I need a revision session.

Let's suppose I'm using 5kg of grain, and I know I lose around 11°C on strike, so I put 12.5 litres of mash liquor in my tun at 77°C, mix in my grain, put the lid on at 66°C and leave that for 90 minutes.

So far I've only fly sparged, so when I start to tap off the runnings I'm also sprinkling water on the top, keeping the grain bed covered, running through around 20 litres, getting hotter and hotter until I hit around 75°C, then drain the tun. Please remind me what the temperature increase does.

If I mash a couple of degrees cooler I end up with a drier beer, a couple of degrees hotter and I get out more dextrins so it ends up sweeter and with more body, right?

How does a batch sparge work?

Strike at 77°C, dough in, leave 90 minutes at 66°C then drain, same as before?
Add a second 10 litre wash, still at 66°C ? Leave it for how long? Drain again.
Add a third 10 litre wash, how hot? Leave it for how long? Drain.

What are the pros and cons of both methods?
Which do you prefer?

 

[evanvine]

Moley
Even though I’ve been AG brewing for 26 years I don’t rate myself as any form of expert or Guru.
I have always fly sparged with water at “doughing in“ temperature and my average extraction has been around 86%.
The only time I have surface water on the mash is when it’s a bit set.
You are correct in that the hotter mash produces a sweeter wort.
For more accurate info you really need a comment from some one “Aleman”.
PS I’ve only come across the concept of “Batch sparging” on this Forum, but never tried it!

 

[tubby_shaw]

Please remind me what the temperature increase does.

The temperature increase, halts the Amylase enzyme activity, improves the fluidity of the runnings to help with the extraction of sugars and helps to get the wort to the boil faster.

How does a batch sparge work?

Strike at 77°C, dough in, leave 90 minutes at 66°C then drain, same as before?
Add a second 10 litre wash, still at 66°C ? Leave it for how long? Drain again.
Add a third 10 litre wash, how hot? Leave it for how long? Drain.

That's pretty much it :thumb:
THIS CALCULATOR will give you the required amounts of liquor for each batch.
Your sparge liquor should be at the same sort of temperature as your mash liquor was at strike heat, don't let it get above 80C.
The timing for batch sparging depends on how clear you want your runnings to be into the copper, when I batch sparge, I drain, add my first addition of mash liquor, stir, allow to settle, recirc until it runs clear, drain and repeat.

What are the pros and cons of both methods?

Batch sparging is quicker and easier and there is less chance of extracting tannins etc. Fly sparging is more fun and more efficient :)

Which do you prefer?

I prefer to fly sparge :thumb:

 

[llannige]

I've only ever batch sparged,and use Beersmith for my calculations.
I tend to sparge very slowly and find it a simple process.

As my efficiency readings for my last 3 brews have been,83,86 and 84%.I can't see any need to try fly sparging as batch works well for me. :grin:
I guess it's best to try both methods though and compare the results.

 

[Moley]

Thanks folks, some good comments so far, I will check out the calculators when I'm home tonight.

Keep'em coming :thumb:

 

[Dunfie]

There is also no chance of any channelling through the grain bed which is a possibiity with fly sparging (although from talking to many brewers I don't think it is a big issue for fly spargers either).

I batch sparge because I find it the most conveinient for my setup and I don't want to change a process that seems to be working fine. However, I am considering a move to fly sparging once I get my new HLT sorted out. :hmm:

 

[ano]

Channeling risk is reduced by keeping the water a little above the grain bed when fly sparging.

I've only batch sparged (at home) and found it annoying but I add the first batch before running off the first time. I let mine sit for around 15 minutes then run off then add the second batch, sit again for 15 minutes and run off. My first brew I didn't wait this long and it wasn't clear. So you need to recirculate runnings twice, running off itself can take a while and so it still takes 45 minutes to sparge.

 

[evanvine]

Question.
Do the big boys (Breweries) fly sparge or batch sparge?
Just a thought!

 

[Aleman]

The craft breweries fly sparge . . . The really big boys centrifuge . . . and the grain comes out dry

 

[Varnish]

Lets have a look at you're centrifuge plans then Aleman.

 

[tubby_shaw]

Lets have a look at you're centrifuge plans then Aleman.

:rofl:

 

[evanvine]

Wish I could get hold of an old fashioned spin drier, somthing I've long thought of!

 

[Wez]

Your supposed to sparge :wha:

 

[evanvine]

It would beat the hell out of a fruit press!

 

[evanvine]

Wez
where does the "supposed to" bit come from?

 

[tubby_shaw]

Wish I could get hold of an old fashioned spin drier, somthing I've long thought of!

They are still available new CLICKY so you should be able to get one second hand :hmm:

 

[evanvine]

Thanks TS
I've always thought they were an item of the dim and distant past!

 

[Frisp]

First two batches were Batch sparged, Too much of a faff. Tried fly sparging and never looked back,

 

[Zwickel]

I do a combination of batch and fly sparge.

explanation: my mash and lauter tun holds 50l volume
I´m gonna start with 10kg of grain and 40l of water
first lautering brings me around 30l of wort at an SG ~1080
then I´m gonna add another 30l of water for batch sparging,
second lautering will be 30l of wort as well at SG ~1028.
As soon as the first 10l of the second lautering process went through, I´m going to sprinkle another 15l of water on top of the grain bed (fly sparge).
I´m ending up with altogether around 75 litres of wort at a SG of ~1048

not so bad, isn´t it?

Cheers :

 

[evanvine]

Wow ZW
I've enough on handling 23 ltrs!