Big "double" American IPA - will this work?

[calumscott]

I've got a lot of American hops and I fancy brewing a BIG beer. So big ABV, big bitterness and big ballsy hops.

I really like brewdog's Hardcore, with it's 150 theoretical IBUs so that's the start point.

Can I have your feedback and suggestions on this which I intend to brew over the Christmas period.

Recipe: 35th Prime - Double AIPA
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.02 l   
Bottling Volume: 21.32 l
Estimated OG: 1.087 SG
Estimated Color: 16.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 149.9 IBUs
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
8.25 kg               Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC)         Grain         1        90.7 %        
0.75 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC)    Grain         2        8.2 %         
0.10 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (157.6 EBC)   Grain         3        1.1 %         
40.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min         Hop           4        24.4 IBUs     
40.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min         Hop           5        18.5 IBUs     
40.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min        Hop           6        43.7 IBUs     
20.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           7        11.4 IBUs     
20.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           8        8.6 IBUs      
20.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min        Hop           9        20.4 IBUs     
10.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           10       4.4 IBUs      
10.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           11       3.3 IBUs      
10.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min        Hop           12       7.8 IBUs      
5.28 g                Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)              Fining        13       -             
10.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min         Hop           14       2.1 IBUs      
10.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min         Hop           15       1.6 IBUs      
10.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min        Hop           16       3.7 IBUs      
10.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min   Hop           17       0.0 IBUs      
10.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min   Hop           18       0.0 IBUs      
10.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min  Hop           19       0.0 IBUs      
2.0 pkg               Safale American  (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)  Yeast         20       -             
30.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days     Hop           21       0.0 IBUs      
30.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days     Hop           22       0.0 IBUs      
30.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days    Hop           23       0.0 IBUs      


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 9.10 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Saccharification  Add 38.73 l of water at 71.4 C          66.7 C        75 min        
Mash Out          Heat to 75.6 C over 7 min               75.6 C        10 min

Yes, that comes out at a total of 360g of hops in a 5 gallon brew!

Thanks!! :thumb:

 

[The Goatreich]

That looks bloomin' bonkers! I'll be very interested to hear how this turns out.

 

[calumscott]

That looks bloomin' bonkers!

"Bonkers" was pretty much the start point... well that and the Hardcore IPA brewsheet. :lol:

Hardcore IPA is:

ABV: 9.2%
OG: 1083
IBU's: 150
Malts: Maris Otter, Crystal malt, Caramalt
Hops: Centennial, Columbus, Simcoe
Dry Hops: Centennial, Columbus, Simcoe

 

[PD]

wow !

and here's me pondering over a Celebration ale with a grain bill of 6.23kg and hops of 207gms.
7.6% abv and bitterness of 53 IBU

 

[wilsoa1111]

honestly, looks bloody brillant,
having never implemented anything that bitter before im worried by the amount in the 90 min boil-

personally i would shift some of that and a bit of the dry hops (if u think u can spare them lol) to the late hop additions as thats meant to be were the big boys put alot of hops to get big flavours- also personally dry hopping never did much flavour wise for me, just aroma
also to simulate a big brewerys lengthy steeping time when whirlpooling im gonna leave my 0 min hops to steep (with some clingfilm on) for a bit(10 mins) before i slap the cooler on- will still get a rapid cool therefore cold break but a proper steep (also compensates for leaf hops vs pellet).
if your worried about losing some of the ibus (360 is mental btw, heads may spin) with the late hopping u can put the 90mins in at first wort- beersmith reckons that bumps up the extraction a bit and does aroma and bittering a favour or two

 

[robsan77]

I would think about subbing some grain for white sugar to thin the beer a bit. You may get a syrup there.

Also, dry hopping works best in batches. Don't put them all in at once. 7- 10 days with no more than 100g and then the same again.

 

[calumscott]

Thanks wilsoa1111, all sounds perfectly logical.

IBU's is "only" 149.9 - there's 360g of hops and some of those are the heavyweight yankee types...

Anyway, first wort hops - this will be BIAB so those go in once the bag comes out and just get to steep for a bit before the burners go on for the boil? Is that the idea? How long is sensible to steep before the boil?

Anyway, I've done a bit of jiggling around, 90min hops each down to 30g and in as first wort hops. 60mins up to 23g, 30 mins up to 11g, 10 mins up to 19g, 0mins up to 12g and dry hops down to 25g. Gives me the same 149 IBU (149 - the 35th Prime Number...) from the same 360g of hops. That sound better?

If you reckoned even more to the end of the boil I could shift Chinook back and the others forward reserving some more Chinook for the dry hop because that grapefruit ping is just gorgeous...?

 

[calumscott]

Thanks Rob, I'm aiming for something really quite "full" in the mouth, hence the stupid IBU to try to balance it...

...I think that's what BD have done with Hardcore, it is really quite "thick" and there are sweet notes if you look carefully for them behind the massive bitterness and dry hop.

I guess then you would recommend a mash profile for a light-bodied beer if sticking to all malt? So, say, 90mins before mashout?

 

[wilsoa1111]

thnx for taking ideas on board but like i said honestly never tried anything this mental, just going by basic principles, heres a classic eg from beersmith addon- soz if infringes on copyright etc- btw hops are added every 5 mins till o mins from 15 mins = 4 lots of aroma hops- i beleive the blen would be consisent with what ur using- also note no dry hops...
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 115th Dream Hopbursted I2PA AGK
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 30.5484 l
Post Boil Volume: 26.5737 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 22.7126 l
Bottling Volume: 22.7126 l
Estimated OG: 1.08926 SG
Estimated Color: 17.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 120.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 64.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7.4843 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 84.6 %
0.4536 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 2 5.1 %
56.70 g Cluster [7.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 35.3 IBUs
56.70 g Cluster [7.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 4 27.1 IBUs
85.05 g 115th Dream Hopburst Blend [7.25 %] - Bo Hop 5 27.2 IBUs
85.05 g 115th Dream Hopburst Blend [7.25 %] - Bo Hop 6 19.9 IBUs
85.05 g 115th Dream Hopburst Blend [7.25 %] - Bo Hop 7 10.9 IBUs
85.05 g 115th Dream Hopburst Blend [7.25 %] - Ar Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [125.00 Yeast 9 -
0.9072 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 10 10.3 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 8.8450 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 20.7063 l of water at 73.1411 C 66.6667 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 13.2490 l of water at 91.4713 C 75.5556 C 10 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.4889 l water at 75.5556 C
Notes:
------
Gravity deliberately overshot - designed to yield 6 gals at 1.090 to compensate for volume loss to hops in boiler
Finishing hops (EKG, Cascade, Crystal, Warrior) blended & added at specified times

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[calumscott]

Ah, I see what you're getting at now!

I'll have another tinker to load more into the last 10 mins in chunks. :thumb:

 

[calumscott]

So a bit more tinkering to shift all the bittering Chinook and Bullion up to first wort with a little cascade, just a lump of cascade at 30 mins, then 90g additions (30g each) at 15,10,5 and 0 mins... Means I still get my 149IBU...

So 50% of the alphas come from the 90 & 30min additions and 50% from the late additions.

The 90 & 30 min additions account for only 24% of the weight of hop in the copper and the late ones 19% each.

But...

I've had to ramp up the weight of hops a bit to do it!! :lol:

475g in the copper!!! Just as well that I got them cheap hey...?

Recipe: 35th Prime - Double AIPA (amend)
Brewer: 
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 33.16 l
Post Boil Volume: 27.91 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.02 l   
Bottling Volume: 21.32 l
Estimated OG: 1.085 SG
Estimated Color: 15.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 149.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.6 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
8.25 kg               Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC)         Grain         1        93.2 %        
0.50 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC)    Grain         2        5.6 %         
0.10 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (157.6 EBC)   Grain         3        1.1 %         
35.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min   Hop           4        23.9 IBUs     
35.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min  Hop           5        42.7 IBUs     
15.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - First Wort 90.0 min   Hop           6        7.7 IBUs      
30.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           7        10.1 IBUs     
30.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min         Hop           8        8.6 IBUs      
30.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min         Hop           9        6.5 IBUs      
30.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min        Hop           10       15.4 IBUs     
5.28 g                Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)              Fining        11       -             
30.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min         Hop           12       6.3 IBUs      
30.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min         Hop           13       4.8 IBUs      
30.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min        Hop           14       11.3 IBUs     
30.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min          Hop           15       3.5 IBUs      
30.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min          Hop           16       2.6 IBUs      
30.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min         Hop           17       6.2 IBUs      
30.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min   Hop           18       0.0 IBUs      
30.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min   Hop           19       0.0 IBUs      
30.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min  Hop           20       0.0 IBUs      
2.0 pkg               Safale American  (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)  Yeast         21       -             
25.00 g               Bullion [8.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days     Hop           22       0.0 IBUs      
25.00 g               Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days     Hop           23       0.0 IBUs      
25.00 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days    Hop           24       0.0 IBUs      


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 8.85 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Saccharification  Add 38.57 l of water at 68.8 C          64.4 C        90 min        
Mash Out          Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 75.6 C  75.6 C        10 min

 

[The Goatreich]

Blimey! Mind they don't soak up all of your wort!!!

 

[alanywiseman.]

Love the sound of the Calum.

Have you had a look at Franklin's Hopzilla IPA? I know he likes his hoppy beers. This one is 125 IBUs but a similar OG. May be of help :thumb:

 

[Good Ed]

The only American IPA I've done is this http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=30086&p=287677&hilit=laurel+ipa#p287677 which is really nice.

Using US-05 and fermenting at say 20C you should get about an 85% attenuation which will give you a FG of about 1013 which is fine without adding sugar.

The Laurel IPA had a BU:GU (bittering units/gravity units) of 1.65, yours has a ratio of 1.76, so I wouldn't worry about it being too bitter; it sounds great :thumb:

Just bear in mind your pre boil volume, loss to hops due to displacement and absorbtion = 1.6L per 100g hops

Good luck :

 

[RITiger1060]

The recipe looks good, but I offer the following advise whenever brewing a DIPA.

Keep the final gravity in mind. A DIPA has a lighter body. The final gravity should be somewhere 1.008 to 1.015, so the hops can really shine through the malt and give you that slap-in-the-face wow factor. In order to achieve this you're going need to replace some of the malt with white table sugar or corn sugar (dextrose) up to 10% of the total fermentable sugars.

Based on you're estimated original gravity and upper limit of yeast attenuation (77%) the beer will finish out around 1.025. Somewhere between a DIPA and American Barely Wine.

Check out this link and find "How to brew a DIPA", the author is the godfather of DIPAs.
Actually, google (zymurgy free downloads), then search for the article.

Cheers!

 

[Good Ed]

Here it is http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/zymurgy/free-downloads

scroll down the page for the download by Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River Brewing

Thanks for the info Tiger :thumb:

 

[graysalchemy]

Don't let aleman see that

Big "double" American IPA

American IPA :nono: :nono:

The two words do not go together.

Miss out the I and you get American Pale Ale :thumb: :thumb:

Now that looks like my type of beer but it will be a bugger to get the wort out of the kettle with all those hops.

It looks like a similar hopping regime to my Odd Job. but a lot heavier on the IBU's

I wonder where you got those hops from :whistle: :whistle:

 

[RobWalker]

My worry would be whether you could mash that much malt at once. Is it as simple as mashing it the way beersmith says?

As for the hops, I used to brew 2 gallon batches. Don't underestimate the size of 360g of reconstituted hops!

 

[Abiruth]

Yes, that comes out at a total of 360g of hops in a 5 gallon brew!

Yikes and I've been fretting about the 35g I put in my 1 gallon brew

:drink:

 

[calumscott]

My worry would be whether you could mash that much malt at once. Is it as simple as mashing it the way beersmith says?

As for the hops, I used to brew 2 gallon batches. Don't underestimate the size of 360g of reconstituted hops!

I bloomin' hope so! All I can do is bung it in the pot and wait!