Brewzilla Gen 4 - Struggling to get to boil point

[peterpiper]

Thanks for this. I realise this is targeted at the original problem but I think we need to start a BZ G4 how to use/hints and tips thread as we are building up a information resource which doesn't 100% fit into 'struggling to get to the boil'.

I'm fairly sure the calibration of the built in sensor is out but everything worked fine in my tests so I'm leaving it. I've got separate RAPT probe too, the thing I've changed in the settings to do with the probe is reduce the timeout from two minutes to 30 seconds.

Interesting about the relay cycle time. Won't changing it from the default mess with the PID algorithm ? Think I'm going to leave mine at the default for now.

FWIW my brewshed is part of a larger building with its own leccy supply.

What is your default, relay cycle time?

Might be good to compile a listing, of all the default settings, for anyone that wants to restore the defaults Until a 'reset all settings' function is included.

 

[peterpiper]

Went on a hunt and found the RAPT github site. The good news is that having control over pump, heater, PID etc. during steps is planned :-

Advanced Profiles: Add pump, heating, PID, external sensor differential settings to profile steps for BrewZilla profiles.​

The bad news is that it has been planned for a year. I've given it a thumbs up which might help.

Can't find (right) RApPT github. If you can give a link, I'd try sending a thumbs prompt as well.

 

[peterpiper]

A good idea maybe ask Chippy to change the title.
[

Thanks for this. I realise this is targeted at the original problem but I think we need to start a BZ G4 how to use/hints and tips thread as we are building up a information resource which doesn't 100% fit into 'struggling to get to the boil'.

I'm fairly sure the calibration of the built in sensor is out but everything worked fine in my tests so I'm leaving it. I've got separate RAPT probe too, the thing I've changed in the settings to do with the probe is reduce the timeout from two minutes to 30 seconds.

Interesting about the relay cycle time. Won't changing it from the default mess with the PID algorithm ? Think I'm going to leave mine at the default for now.

FWIW my brewshed is part of a larger building with its own leccy supply.

Thanks for this. I realise this is targeted at the original problem but I think we need to start a BZ G4 how to use/hints and tips thread as we are building up a information resource which doesn't 100% fit into 'struggling to get to the boil'.

I'm fairly sure the calibration of the built in sensor is out but everything worked fine in my tests so I'm leaving it. I've got separate RAPT probe too, the thing I've changed in the settings to do with the probe is reduce the timeout from two minutes to 30 seconds.

Interesting about the relay cycle time. Won't changing it from the default mess with the PID algorithm ? Think I'm going to leave mine at the default for now.

FWIW my brewshed is part of a larger building with its own leccy supply.

 

[peterpiper]

Thanks for this. I realise this is targeted at the original problem but I think we need to start a BZ G4 how to use/hints and tips thread as we are building up a information resource which doesn't 100% fit into 'struggling to get to the boil'....

....relay cycle time. Won't changing it from the default mess with the PID algorithm ? Think I'm going to leave mine at the default for now.

Agree - but might work better with several threads for the different topics, to stop each getting too long (like homebrewtalk.com's BZ g.4, 30 pages), and things getting lost.
Maybe, someone could start threads for: basics; advanced; problems; accessories & mods; RAPT & connectected devices; Profiles; and suggested improvements.
Kegland might pick up on problems & suggestions threads.

Relay cycle time: Whatever the cycle setting, the average heat remains at the power selected. The mass of the metalwork alone, will 'smooth' out the pulses of ingoing heat.
One second of heating would have hardly any effect on base temperature. So 1 second on : 3 seconds off, gives little smoother temperature than 10 seconds on : 30 seconds off. And the latter (which I guess is a 40 second cycle time) could extend the relay life 10 fold.

Overshoots (at inbuilt base sensor) happen more because, by the time the heat put into the base registers and heating turns off, the base is then too hot. The accumulated excess energy takes time dissapating into the wort, and this leads to overshoots/undershoots.
RAPT graphs typically show the most rapid overshoot cycle periods, are around 3min (on mine, and ones I've seen posted), depending on flow rate and heater power (I reduce power when flow is slow, then still around 3 min).
Graph: red line = built in sensor; blue = RAPT probe, green = target. There's around 9 (red) overshoots over the 30 minutes shown.

Any cycle time that gets the average power correct, over half the overshoot period time, would just work (relay cycle 90sec : overshoots 3min), but 1/4 leaves a good margin (relay cycle 45sec).

 

[Twostage]

Can't find (right) RApPT github. If you can give a link, I'd try sending a thumbs prompt as well.

There you go. Should take you to the page that shows what they have in planning. You’ll need to join GitHub to give it the thumbs up.

Rapt

If they were looking for things to do I’d ask for a ‘how long to hit this stage’s target temperature’ display item.

 

[MashBag]

A good idea maybe ask Chippy to change the title.

Don't you start causing trouble. Common sense will never catch on.

 

[The Baron]

Apologies to the OP but while I have got the attention of Gen 4 owners does anybody know how I set it to start in the morning(delay timer) so I can set it to start before I get up to save time on brew day and also does this work if I have set a profile to brew the beer.
Ps is it in the profile settings?

 

[Twostage]

Apologies to the OP but while I have got the attention of Gen 4 owners does anybody know how I set it to start in the morning(delay timer) so I can set it to start before I get up to save time on brew day and also does this work if I have set a profile to brew the beer.
Ps is it in the profile settings?

Yes. Create a new profile and then make step 1 have a target of 0 degrees and move to the next step when the timer expires. Then set the step duration to (say) 12 hours, you can't say until a time, just how long the step takes. I'd set an alert in the alert tab to send you a message when the step completes and this will be your alarm (assuming you've got the mobile app). The second step would be heating to the mash/strike temp or whatever you wanted. Assuming the 12 hours above if you started running the profile at 8pm it would start heating the water at 8am. Don't forget to put water in it

 

[The Baron]

Thanks Twostage I thought it may be in the profile set up

 

[MashBag]

Thanks Twostage I thought it may be in the profile set up

When working out an overnight mash, you also need to allow time for heating, so it really helps to know your heating rate.

My BM20 with 30 litres & 2700w element takes 1 min per 1c. Very handy.

So to get from 20c to 50c I allow 30 mins.

For convenience my overnight mash takes 12 hours (+/– 5m). Easy to remember and I know if I press start @ 7pm its ready at 7am. No reprogramming.

 

[The Baron]

Thanks Mashbag I have timed to mash heat up cycle and it takes around 55 mins from cold at this time of the year about 10c to 67C mash temp or strike temp if a little higher.
I have my heating % turned down so as to give a more stable mash temp so as not to over/under shoot too much

 

[Twostage]

Thanks Mashbag I have timed to mash heat up cycle and it takes around 55 mins from cold at this time of the year about 10c to 67C mash temp or strike temp if a little higher.
I have my heating % turned down so as to give a more stable mash temp so as not to over/under shoot too much

A realisation has flickered into light. So you and @MashBag dough in the night before and you are going to leave it until the mash is over, right ? I was thinking you were going to get the water to strike/mash and then dough in.

Even though I must have read the words from @MashBag I hadn't thought this through. Trying to get my head around the thought of essentially waves of temperature going through the mash like a stepped mash with an infinite number of rests. Must work though . (or am I getting this completely wrong )

 

[The Baron]

We were talking about setting the water to be heated to strike temp while we are still in bed then get up and dough in/mash in the morning so we need to know how long it takes to heat up to strike temp then we can add this into the delay timer equation so it will be at strike temp when we get up

 

[Twostage]

We were talking about setting the water to be heated to strike temp while we are still in bed then get up and dough in/mash in the morning so we need to know how long it takes to heat up to strike temp then we can add this into the delay timer equation so it will be at strike temp when we get up

Ah right, I was getting it wrong then. I might try the wake up to strike temp water, probably cut at least half an hour off brewday.

 

[MashBag]

@Twostage
I wake up and mash is done. Ready to boil.

I doughed in at 20c the night (12 hours ) before

 

[Davegase]

I wake up and mash on done. Ready to boil.

I doughed in at 20c the night (12 hours ) before

Each to their own, home brewing is my hobby so I like to be more involved even though I haven't got room for three pot system

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Each to their own, home brewing is my hobby so I like to be more involved even though I haven't got room for three pot system

What about doing the mash at night and let it overnight mash, seems to be popular with some folks?

 

[Davegase]

What about doing the mash at night and let it overnight mash, seems to be popular with some folks?

 

[Davegase]

Not for me I don't want to miss any of the action

 

[MashBag]

What about doing the mash at night and let it overnight mash, seems to be popular with some folks?

Yes you can. That's where I started, but there is the extra electric cost. Holding the grain cold for 8 hours is cheaper. No big difference in beer. Probably a bit dryer.