Burner for 100L pot

[Bionicmunky]

Hi all,

I have finally bought the final shiny for the wort production side of the brewery (100L nordic from the lovely Nadine).

Now, my current boiler (70L nordic) has 2 3kw immersion elements and it's a bugger trying to keep boil that I like, with 1 element it's not enough, with 2 on it's scarey!

So, the current boiler is being relegated to HLT, and the new boiler will be gas fired for better control.

Can anybody recommend a burner for 100L pot boiling upto 80L at a time?


Thanks in advance,

John

p.s. there is likely going to be a 60L H&G placcy boiler available soon, anyone interested?

 

[Aleman]

This has proved popular with a few brewers . . . not sure how a nordic pot will take it though . . . And I'd have a word with them about what sort of regulator is suitable . . . I've heard that HP Regs tend to blow it out.

 

[Bionicmunky]

Thanks Aleman,

I went for the 0.5-2bar reg, do you think I should change it out for a fixed low pressure one?

J

 

[commsbiff]

Looking at the specs of that burner it states "30,030 Btu/hour @ 28- 37mbar"
37 mbar = 0.537 psi
I'm not sure if that's of any use to you.

 

[Aleman]

I think 0.5 bar is the maximum you can get away with on that burner (which is 500mbar so just over 10 times more than recommended!). Damfoose uses one of these, and I can't remember what reg he has.

They dor a 50mBar one . . . but nothing in the HP range goes below 0.5bar . . . AS I said Have a word with them as to the suitability of the HP regs . . . you don't want it blowing out on you . . . Trust Me

 

[Bionicmunky]

Rang them and the guy said "you making beer?"

I said yes,

"Grand! that's what they all buy"

So fingers crossed.

 

[Springer]

Hi Bionic and all
I am just about to buy a burner and the one mentioned seems to be the one to get. I would be keen to hear what heating up times you achieve. What do we think the burner puts out with the high pressure reg and more important how much of it gets into the wort. Are we talking insulated boilers here, cos that make one hell of a difference, yeah I know the shiney ones look good, but to me its about efficiency ?
I had in mind to install 1 or even 2 electric heaters into the boiler to help out the gas and give an alternative heat source in case of break downs ?
I have been looking at heating element and kettle type ones seem to be 20 quid and immersions about half that and they have more area, so less gumming up ? I know they are harder to fit but is it not worth it?
Time to go and jump in the tub, been welding up a Landrover chassis all day and am black and smelly from the grinding !!
Best Regards
Springer

 

[commsbiff]

how do you intend to protect the electrics from the heat thrown off by the gas burner? :wha:

 

[Springer]

Not done any real field trials yet, not got my hands on one of those big Focker burners !, Did a quick test with a 90,000 btu burner from a workshop heater and the aggressive heat was quite well down the boiler.
I know where you are coming from though, 240 volts, water and gas burners are not a good mix, but they do it in domestic central heating boilers ? Agreed though not a mix "for the beginer" as they say !
Three thoughts, boiler lagging, boil lagging and boiler lagging with the electrical bit well insulated and high up, just to help out the gas ring ?? Maybe one low down to use when the gas is not being used. Dunno just a thought, heat up time is quite an issue. It may not be needed if the big burner does its stuff.
Regards
Springer

 

[bones]

Keep us posted on the detail...
I'm thinking about upgrading to something similar....
Crimbo Treat :thumb:

 

[Vossy1]

Now, my current boiler (70L nordic) has 2 3kw immersion elements and it's a bugger trying to keep boil that I like, with 1 element it's not enough, with 2 on it's scarey!

With 1 on put the lid on half to 3/4 of the way you will be able to maintain a good rolling boil.
I have a 100ltr pot and do this in summer with a 2.75kw element. In winter I can lag the boiler and still use on element, or leave the lid off and use both.

Three thoughts, boiler lagging, boil lagging and boiler lagging with the electrical bit well insulated and high up, just to help out the gas ring ?? Maybe one low down to use when the gas is not being used. Dunno just a thought, heat up time is quite an issue.

Try your gas alone first. Combining electric and gas is going to be almost impossible without going to extremes, as is lagging a burner powered pot.

heat up time is quite an issue.

Why, how long is it taking you ?
I've got 2 x 2.75kw elements fitted and boil 76 ltrs on average. It usually takes around 30 mins to get from mash out to a good rolling boil. If I remember to put the elements on as soon as they are covered with wort, I can almost have the wort boiling by the time the sparge is just finishing, near enough.

The second calculator on this page is very handy :thumb:

 

[Springer]

Again Vossy, what a source of information! The thing is I'm on overload now :? When I did my last brew, 23 litres, it took 50 mins from start of mash to boil, with the heater turned on as soon as it was covered. So heat up time outside, with the coat on the boiler, literally one of mine, took about 40 mins to get up to boil, ok for 5 gall maybe, but this is why I was looking at gas and electric.
As you say 70 litres in 30 mins for 6kw is fine, the sparging time, which is what the calculator gives, but I am far off this, my heater checks out to 2.75 kw. I will also check what voltage I am getting but I think this will be right ?
Running 2 x3kw would be perfectly acceptable to me, but not sure why my small set up is way off mark.
Think I will have to go with you on this one and cut the holes and forget the gas idea?. Do people go gas because they can't feed 6 kw

Talking of feeding 6kw, how about a proposal for my hot water supply? 3 x 5 kw =15 kw over three phases, that will seriously hurt the meter bearings. :rofl: The bloke who had it taken out said an overheat thermostat had failed. Bit too complicated as it is, with automatic fill and running at 7psi, steam may be useful though :) 10 gall capacity with heaters that measure up the same as 240 volt immersion heaters.
Ebay 99 p and a mate got the firms van to collect it just off the M25, Friday afternoon, over 120 miles from home, as a back load. Asked mate what the man wanted and he said he is already paid to drive the van and collect things for me !! :lol:

 

[Vossy1]

When I did my last brew, 23 litres, it took 50 mins from start of mash to boil, with the heater turned on as soon as it was covered. So heat up time outside, with the coat on the boiler, literally one of mine, took about 40 mins to get up to boil, ok for 5 gall maybe, but this is why I was looking at gas and electric.

That does seem a really long time to get to a boil. Putting the lid on the boiler until a rolling boil is reached will help (if you're not doing that already)

As you say 70 litres in 30 mins for 6kw is fine, the sparging time, which is what the calculator gives, but I am far off this, my heater checks out to 2.75 kw.

You'll have to fit another element for larger brews. Even for smaller brews it can cut a lot of time.

Do people go gas because they can't feed 6 kw

I suppose there are various reasons. I've have considered gas due to thinking about brewing in a detached garage. I know a few brewers who use immersion elements plugged into standard mains sockets, without problem, but AFAIC it's not worth the risk, and there is one.
A few forum brewers have had seperate mains feeds installed specifically for brewing.

Bit too complicated as it is, with automatic fill and running at 7psi, steam may be useful though

Jest yee not :grin: Steam is used in many commercial breweries to feed coppers

You've got a lot of great contacts

 

[Aleman]

I've brewed outside and the thing that really made the difference for me was insulating the boiler. Without insulation it could take an age to get the wort to boilin . . . and difficult to maintain a rolling boil.

With sufficient insulation 2.5KW is more than enough to keep 50L boiling at a volcanic level . . . OK it might take a bit longer to get to the boil than having two elements, but not by a lot.

I went the gas route as I was considering going commercial, and once you start looking at the cost of installing a seperate feed to power the brewery . . . and the need for two or three 5KW elements (For 4BBL up) then the costs become prohibitive . . . . My gas burners are 13KW each . . . and if I run them at 2 bar they become 19.6 KW . . . . the cost of running something like that in electricity is considerable . . . . although Wibblers brewery does have 2 24KW Immersion elements in their 18BBL Copper . . . Running on three phase

 

[Springer]

Hi Vossy
I had thought of injecting steam put never heard of anyone doing it, so dismissed it, but maybe need to put this idea onto a "front burner instead of a back one". Load of energy in stream, but not to be messed about with lightly, could help the boiler heating up and no harm to the beer you say.
Hi Aleman
Wonder if you can remember where you got those 13kw burners, the only ones I have found are those 8.8kw Fokers :)

Did some investigation on prices and my last 47kg bottle of propane, paid £45 for it, works out at 6.9p per kw ........my electric is 10p per kw.
I think the gas will show a lot of waste heat not getting to right place, but it is more controllable, so maybe work out about the same or more, expensive is my guess.

 

[Bionicmunky]

Fokker burner, 0.5-2bar reg and pipe arrived today :-)

 

[Springer]

Light it up asap, can't wait to hear what it does !!
Any means of weighing bottle so we know what it uses ??

 

[Bionicmunky]

I need a bottle of gas first, oh and my pot from Nordic :-)

Hopefully by this weekend.

Then just wait for these from beerbelly in Auz thanks to Mrs Munky (birthday pressie) :-)

 

[tubby_shaw]

I need a bottle of gas first, oh and my pot from Nordic :-)

Hopefully by this weekend.

Then just wait for these from beerbelly in Auz thanks to Mrs Munky (birthday pressie) :-)

Ooooo sexy :mrgreen:

 

[Bionicmunky]

Pot has arrived from Nordic, 4 days, not bad.

Picking up a 19kg propane bottle on saturday morning, have a supplier 100m from my front door :-)

nearly there..