Diane Abbott

[Chippy_Tea]

Diane Abbot is, by far, the most racially abused MP in the house she has received far more hate mail than any other MP, much of it overtly racist. She has received death threats

Have you any facts to back up this claim as I didn't know there was a leader board.

 

[clib]

Diane Abbot's original wording was pretty shocking imo in it's lack of awareness and the potential to cause offence and division. And its ignorance tbh. It is hard to believe she could be so 'clumsy', in writing, having held senior positions in the party, and after living through an anti-semitism enquiry. It is exactly the kind of thing the Labour Party does not need - another anti-semitism debacle. This was written down, considered and sent to the Observer, it wasn't a rash comment spoken in a hurry. She has said herself that she wants to disassociate herself from her own remarks. The best way to do that is probably to resign really, I think.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...-general-election_uk_644633b5e4b0d840388966cb

 

[clib]

Nor does it stop the right-wing of the Labour party, in conjunction with the right-wing Board of Deputies expressing faux outrage and attempting to silence and eject a left-wing MP who is a prominent supporter of Palestinian rights. There are racists at play here, but Diane Abbot is not one of them.

Then why is she getting so mixed up about who is the subject of racism and who isn't? After all this time and with all her experience?

 

[Gingerbrews]

I want to voice support for all the poor Redheads who continue to be abused throughout their lives

 

[An Ankoù]

The hypocrisy is palpable. We had dear old Boris, with his expensive education and sense of entitlement making all sorts of comments about pikininis, letterboxes, watermelon smiles etc, etc. These comments are incontrovertibly racist and don't fool yourselves that they weren't intended to be so. So what sanctions were taken against Boris?
Deafening silence.
Of course, Boris isn't a woman, isn't black, went to the right school, represents the currectly fashionable and influential sector of society etc etc.

Abbott represents the working classes (such as they are these days) and she's old-school Labour. She did have a decent education, but it's not a prerequisite of the job to have been schooled in rhetoric and debating at Eton.
For heaven's sake, "donnez the lass une break". To misquote Billy Bunter.

 

[Martin Kernick]

Have you any facts to back up this claim as I didn't know there was a leader board.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ore-abused-than-any-other-mps-during-election

 

[MrJay83]

The Guardian is no more than a collection of opinion pieces.

 

[clib]

The hypocrisy is palpable. We had dear old Boris, with his expensive education and sense of entitlement making all sorts of comments about pikininis, letterboxes, watermelon smiles etc, etc. These comments are incontrovertibly racist and don't fool yourselves that they weren't intended to be so. So what sanctions were taken against Boris?
Deafening silence.
Of course, Boris isn't a woman, isn't black, went to the right school, represents the currectly fashionable and influential sector of society etc etc.

Abbott represents the working classes (such as they are these days) and she's old-school Labour. She did have a decent education, but it's not a prerequisite of the job to have been schooled in rhetoric and debating at Eton.
For heaven's sake, "donnez the lass une break". To misquote Billy Bunter.

This nothing to do with Boris.

 

[Martin Kernick]

Diane Abbot's original wording was pretty shocking imo in it's lack of awareness and the potential to cause offence and division. And its ignorance tbh. It is hard to believe she could be so 'clumsy', in writing, having held senior positions in the party, and after living through an anti-semitism enquiry. It is exactly the kind of thing the Labour Party does not need - another anti-semitism debacle. This was written down, considered and sent to the Observer, it wasn't a rash comment spoken in a hurry. She has said herself that she wants to disassociate herself from her own remarks. The best way to do that is probably to resign really, I think.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...-general-election_uk_644633b5e4b0d840388966cb

I don't agree. Her wording wasn't great in that it impled that Jewish people and Irish people have never experienced racism, which is untrue. But the thrust of her argument is an important point, and a subject that very few politicians would be prepared to broach - but needs to be discussed. There is a heirarchy of racism, and racism towards black and brown people is far more widespread and far less reported on or condemned over recent years than racism towards Jewish people. The fact that Diane Abbott has had the courage to broach it makes her very much suitable material for parliament. Matin Forde KC, who wrote the Forde report , commissioned by Labour and then totally ignored when he made criticisms of Labour's current racism problems, speaks, in his report, about the heirarchy of racism within the Labour party. I can only say that Labour's approach to Dianne Abbott, while at the same time trying to suppress the Forde report, speaks volumes about their attitude to race issues. What's crystal clear is that the abuse of the term 'antisemitism', hijacked for political (and racist - in terms of the Palestinian people) purposes, makes a mockery of Labour taking the problem of racism seriously.

 

[Martin Kernick]

The Guardian is no more than a collection of opinion pieces.

OK how about this: Diane Abbott faced ten times the abuse of other MPs in election run-up

Or this:
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/online-violence-women-mps
Is Amnesty International no more than a collection of opinion peices?

FWIW the Guardian is an elite-controlled newspaper these days, but w.r.t. the Dianne Abbot article, was accurate.

 

[Agentgonzo]

This nothing to do with Boris.

Yet it is everything to do with the hypocrisy and double standards shown, of which Boris is a shining example.

If the comments would have been made by Boris, or Gove, or Rees-Mogg, or any entitled white Tory, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this conversation right now because those components wouldn't have been misplaced

 

[MrJay83]

OK how about this: Diane Abbott faced ten times the abuse of other MPs in election run-up

Or this:
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/online-violence-women-mps
Is Amnesty International no more than a collection of opinion peices?

FWIW the Guardian is an elite-controlled newspaper these days, but w.r.t. the Dianne Abbot article, was accurate.

I've no doubt she has faced a lot racism from idiots (should have made that clear) but my opinion of the Guardian is as above and I believe that Amnesty are self-serving and extremely biased. I wouldn't trust either to tell me what day of the week it is.

 

[Martin Kernick]

I've no doubt she has faced a lot racism from idiots (should have made that clear) but my opinion of the Guardian is as above and I believe that Amnesty are self-serving and extremely biased. I wouldn't trust either to tell me what day of the week it is.

Well I agree that you shouldn't trust the Guardian, in fact I don't think there are any mainstream news outlets that can be trusted. I disagree with you about Amnesty. But I'm glad we can agree that there is a great deal of evidence that Dianne Abbott has suffered a massive amount of racist abuse.

 

[MrJay83]

Well I've seen it on Twitter but I think a lot of it is born from genuine criticism that stupid people can't can articulate.

 

[clib]

Well I've seen it on Twitter but I think a lot of it is born from genuine criticism that stupid people can't can articulate.

A lot of it is borne of racism and hatred. Less intelligent people with good intentions don't say such things.

But we shouldn't compare the behaviour with Boris because he is not a yardstick and doesn't justify other people making divisive statements. Racism needs confronting and not quibbling about. Or comparing or ranking. We argue the toss all day about who's had it worst. The Jews would be right up there anyway, if we did.

 

[Martin Kernick]

The Jews would be right up there anyway, if we did.

Certainly that's true if we consider the historical perspective of the holocaust. But consider this statement from Jaqueline Walker, herself both Jewish and black.

"All racism is abhorrent and must be fought. Different racisms at different times and places have had more impacts on some oppressed groups than others. In modern Europe for example, from the late 19th century to the end of WWII, Jews were at the forefront of racist attacks. In today's Britain this is no longer the case - it is black, Muslim and GRT people who face institutional racism - something which affects the entirety of their prospects and outcomes, personal, civic and professional. That Jews are no longer in the front line of racism is remarkable and should be celebrated. It shows there is a way forward for all oppressed minorities. That does not mean there is no more work to do. Until all peoples are treated equally the struggle continues."

Jewish people are not currently in the frontline of racism in the UK. Black and Asian people most definitely are.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The problem for me as i said early in the thread is she jumped the gun and tried to make an excuse about the article -

Unfortunately she has shot herself in the foot by using the excuse that this was a draught version and was not supposed to have been sent to the paper, is she saying she didn't mean what she said or that she regrets saying it.

 

[Martin Kernick]

Unfortunately she has shot herself in the foot by using the excuse that this was a draught version and was not supposed to have been sent to the paper, is she saying she didn't mean what she said or that she regrets saying it.

She is saying that she didn't mean that Jewish people and Irish people do not suffer racism. The point she was making, which is true, is that in today's Britain, racism against Black people is far more common, persistent and institutionalised than racism against white groups.

I'm sure there are many people on the Board of Deputies who have suffered racist abuse at some time or another. I'm also sure that they do not suffer the constant, day to day attacks that Dianne Abbott, the first black woman elected to parliament and a campaigner against racism over 50 years, suffers. Whether or not you agree with her is beside the point. She has earned the right to make the point.

 

[clib]

Certainly that's true if we consider the historical perspective of the holocaust. But consider this statement from Jaqueline Walker, herself both Jewish and black.

"All racism is abhorrent and must be fought. Different racisms at different times and places have had more impacts on some oppressed groups than others. In modern Europe for example, from the late 19th century to the end of WWII, Jews were at the forefront of racist attacks. In today's Britain this is no longer the case - it is black, Muslim and GRT people who face institutional racism - something which affects the entirety of their prospects and outcomes, personal, civic and professional. That Jews are no longer in the front line of racism is remarkable and should be celebrated. It shows there is a way forward for all oppressed minorities. That does not mean there is no more work to do. Until all peoples are treated equally the struggle continues."

Jewish people are not currently in the frontline of racism in the UK. Black and Asian people most definitely are.

But that's not what Abbot said and the last thing we need is competition to decide who is treated the worst. The way forward is to unite against all forms of racism and avoid any divisive rhetoric. Diane Abbot really should know better. In my opinion. She even appeared to equate the treatment of jews with the treatment of people with red hair.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

She is saying that she didn't mean that Jewish people and Irish people do not suffer racism. The point she was making, <snip>

Do you honestly believe she sent the wrong version (her words not mine)

If yes why was it the wrong version?

The bottom line is she ****** up and she knew it as soon as the story broke, why else would she say it was the wrong version?