Fermzilla 30L All rounder ?

[foxy]

In peak summer does it keep at the temps you are after?

Yes I set it on 17 C cooling mode, so with the thermal energy the yeast produces the core of the ferment will be about 18-19 C, even if its 40 C outside.

 

[Zorro]

@stripeyjoe
Using several bags is often necessary for large hop bills. I do vacuum seal the magnet to protect it from the wort / beer. I stitched the bag magnet into the hop bag, this means I can trap the hop bag with hops above and below the magnet, rather than it all dangling which happens otherwise and you will get premature dry hopping ( soon becoming wet hops ).
I use Computer hard drive magnets on the outside and some normal magnets on the inside. It seems much easier than opening, gassing etc.
I think that the Apollo is the snub nose variant of the fermentasaurus from KEG KING wheras the snub nose is from Keg Land their variant of the troublesome fermzilla, lot of politics / acrimony between those two companies.

I have no idea if it works, but I did see this device for dry hopping.....

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005001493355889.html
It's out of stock currently though. Purging could be a little tricky, although googling somebody suggested adding a bike valve to the bottle. I love a bit of over engineering...



The magnets seem a much easier option though

 

[foxy]

I have no idea if it works, but I did see this device for dry hopping.....

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005001493355889.html
It's out of stock currently though. Purging could be a little tricky, although googling somebody suggested adding a bike valve to the bottle. I love a bit of over engineering...



The magnets seem a much easier option though

The easiest option is just throw them in loose, the hops will start of the fermentation a little more. It isn't as though the build up of co2 is going to vacate the fermenter when the lid is lifted. Cold crash and the hops fall out of suspension.

 

[stripeyjoe]

The easiest option is just throw them in loose

That takes out all the fun!! Magnets, re-purposed pop bottles and a bike pump is where it's at!

Back to the subject of all rounders, mine seems perfectly fine, lid seals nicely and, for £49, was a lot cheaper (and in stock). I just got the pressure kit from AliExpress, so £60 all in. Also got a spunding valve from AliX at the same time (actually two, I find the lower range pressure meter more useful than the one on my regulator).

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@Zorro

I think this thread will give some real world views of how that valve worked for dry hopping.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/cant-find-this-kegland-part-anywhere.686615/#post-9094355
You'll also see that you can just put the kegland T on the bottle and the connectors so you can pressure with CO2 rather than air or into a bicycle valve. That by the way must have been fitted by a gynaecologist working down that hole.

I'm not against tipping the hops in but I don't think you have as much control as with the bags and swishing them ( and the ferment around ) plus you can take them out when you want and let them drain a bit. Yes it's fiddly but lots of the other dry hop no air entry methods are too. Probably doesn't make a lot of difference in the long run for many beers. But if you are double dry hopping a neipa with a fortunes worth of hops in it's worth trying to get the product as good as possible at the end. Also the bags make it easier to reuse the hops if you desired as about 75% alpha acids remain after dry hopping so a little experiment brew I have on at the moment and am waiting to see the outcome.

 

[Zorro]

@Zorro

I think this thread will give some real world views of how that valve worked for dry hopping.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/cant-find-this-kegland-part-anywhere.686615/#post-9094355
You'll also see that you can just put the kegland T on the bottle and the connectors so you can pressure with CO2 rather than air or into a bicycle valve. That by the way must have been fitted by a gynaecologist working down that hole.

I'm not against tipping the hops in but I don't think you have as much control as with the bags and swishing them ( and the ferment around ) plus you can take them out when you want and let them drain a bit. Yes it's fiddly but lots of the other dry hop no air entry methods are too. Probably doesn't make a lot of difference in the long run for many beers. But if you are double dry hopping a neipa with a fortunes worth of hops in it's worth trying to get the product as good as possible at the end. Also the bags make it easier to reuse the hops if you desired as about 75% alpha acids remain after dry hopping so a little experiment brew I have on at the moment and am waiting to see the outcome.

Im still intrigued , I don't mind wasting 12 quid if I can get one and I will share my experience. The idea of the bike valve was to be able to pump co2 in the carb cap and release pressure from the bike valve. So the co2 can flow through the bottle for a better purge. I'm not sure how much difference it makes to just filling co2 in the cap, then releasing and repeating though.

 

[Davegase]

Here is a pic of them side by side, the Apollo is about 120 mm smaller, the new Snubnose has the larger opening too.
View attachment 48733

I've been searching the internet for the Apollo but the only reference I can find is in this thread !!
I have been using a fermzilla for over a year for pressure fermentation with absolutely no problems. But with the benefit of hindsight I would go for an all rounder, (just for the simplicity.)
I do use a spunding valve because it gives you flexibility when pressure fermenting, the prv is more a safety device.
Your Apollo looks interesting and I would love to know more about it if you could provide any links for information and sales !!!

 

[foxy]

I've been searching the internet for the Apollo but the only reference I can find is in this thread !!
I have been using a fermzilla for over a year for pressure fermentation with absolutely no problems. But with the benefit of hindsight I would go for an all rounder, (just for the simplicity.)
I do use a spunding valve because it gives you flexibility when pressure fermenting, the prv is more a safety device.
Your Apollo looks interesting and I would love to know more about it if you could provide any links for information and sales !!!

May not be out in the UK yet. Pressure fermenting, just another unnecessary step in the brewing of beer which has been orchestrated by marketeers. Fermenters are capped for one reason only, to carbonate the beer, why would you need flexibility? It is either 10 or 15 PSI no less or no more, if a PRV is capable of controlling that why make it more complicated? The Apollo has the advantage of less dead yeast exposure than an all rounder, thicker material better manufacturing. Will be available from Brew 2 Bottle within 6 months.

 

[Davegase]

May not be out in the UK yet. Pressure fermenting, just another unnecessary step in the brewing of beer which has been orchestrated by marketeers. Fermenters are capped for one reason only, to carbonate the beer, why would you need flexibility? It is either 10 or 15 PSI no less or no more, if a PRV is capable of controlling that why make it more complicated? The Apollo has the advantage of less dead yeast exposure than an all rounder, thicker material better manufacturing. Will be available from Brew 2 Bottle within 6 months.

There are two factors involved in CO2 absorption from what I have read and in my own experience . Pressure and temperature. You can't carbonate without pressure!
To achieve 2.2 volumes CO2 during fermentation at 15C would require a pressure of 18 psi.
For anybody that is interested here is is a link to a handy carbonation calculator.
Carbonation Calculator
By controlling both you can make a more environmentally friendly beer by venting less CO2 into the atmosphere, and the bonus is buying less CO2 !
You are right pressure fermentation is not necessary to make good beer. However, commercial brewers wouldn't do it if there were no benefits.

 

[foxy]

There are two factors involved in CO2 absorption from what I have read and in my own experience . Pressure and temperature. You can't carbonate without pressure!
To achieve 2.2 volumes CO2 during fermentation at 15C would require a pressure of 18 psi.
For anybody that is interested here is is a link to a handy carbonation calculator.
Carbonation Calculator
By controlling both you can make a more environmentally friendly beer by venting less CO2 into the atmosphere, and the bonus is buying less CO2 !
You are right pressure fermentation is not necessary to make good beer. However, commercial brewers wouldn't do it if there were no benefits.

That's why commercial brewers don't do it, just about all the fermentation tanks have a limit of 15 PSI they cap at 15 or less and add the extra need to the bottling or keg line.

 

[Mash Monster]

Sorry for Hijacking the thread but advice needed
I am on my maiden brew with an All Rounder and a complete novice to pressure fermenting. I only bottle my brews and the purchase was made to reduce oxidation in NEIPA’s . I am currently trying out a CWTCH clone and have set the spunding valve to 5psi just to test the system. I intend to try a closed transfer to a second AR to dry hop and then bottle. I usually use sugar to carbonate using an on line calculator. How do I calculate how much CO2 is in the beer that has been fermented under pressure? Or should I open up the spunding valve fully before cold crashing and allowing the CO2 to escape and bottle as normal . I also have a beer gun (Chinese knock off ) to bottle with
Thanks in advance

 

[Davegase]

Sorry for Hijacking the thread but advice needed
I am on my maiden brew with an All Rounder and a complete novice to pressure fermenting. I only bottle my brews and the purchase was made to reduce oxidation in NEIPA’s . I am currently trying out a CWTCH clone and have set the spunding valve to 5psi just to test the system. I intend to try a closed transfer to a second AR to dry hop and then bottle. I usually use sugar to carbonate using an on line calculator. How do I calculate how much CO2 is in the beer that has been fermented under pressure? Or should I open up the spunding valve fully before cold crashing and allowing the CO2 to escape and bottle as normal . I also have a beer gun (Chinese knock off ) to bottle with
Thanks in advance

I usually ferment from start to finish in the one vessel, in my case the fermzilla. I usually dry hop through the top which is why my next purchase would probably be the AR or snub-nosed !
I've started using this calculator here is the link.
Carbonation Calculator
The link includes a video.
It seems to work very well for me.
My last brew was an Irish stout kit beer.
Irish stout started 29th of May with mangrove jack's number 2(1.4 kg) beer enhancer.
Made up to 22.5 l with the 2L of hubbard's still water and 2 l of chase spring ASDA still water
The rest was 14.9 l r o water.
Boiled 4l and chilled the rest to 3 degrees C.
Og 1.049 pitch two packs of M42 to at 23 deg C @4pm
31st May @ 7pm 23 deg C, 1.015 ,14psi Dry hopped.
Repressurised to 17psi.
6th June fg 1.009 @21c-24psi,
Abv 5.4 started Cold crash.
I hope that is some help to you
But no doubt there will be many points of view.

 

[Mash Monster]

Thanks for the advice great tip ! This would be great if I didn’t want to bottle condition .

 

[Davegase]

Thanks for the advice great tip ! This would be great if I didn’t want to bottle condition .

If you're Chinese bottle gun works
Happy days !

 

[foxy]

Sorry for Hijacking the thread but advice needed
I am on my maiden brew with an All Rounder and a complete novice to pressure fermenting. I only bottle my brews and the purchase was made to reduce oxidation in NEIPA’s . I am currently trying out a CWTCH clone and have set the spunding valve to 5psi just to test the system. I intend to try a closed transfer to a second AR to dry hop and then bottle. I usually use sugar to carbonate using an on line calculator. How do I calculate how much CO2 is in the beer that has been fermented under pressure? Or should I open up the spunding valve fully before cold crashing and allowing the CO2 to escape and bottle as normal . I also have a beer gun (Chinese knock off ) to bottle with
Thanks in advance

Very hard to calculate with lots of different theories and no scientific proof, I have tried the priming sugar using the equation of ferment temperature, definitely overcarbs especially if you don't drink it within 3-4 weeks. I cold crash to -1 C I work out my carbonation in winter at 4 C as it will have warmed up slightly during bottling around 6-7 C in summer. So using brewers friend calculate from that, keep it on the low side first off and adjust as you get more brews done. The other problem will be the beer gun you are going to have to pressurise the fermenter to draw out the beer. For me with an AIPA I would siphon out of the fermenter after cold crashing. I put a link up about bottling NEIPA's fill the bottle to within about 5 ml from the top.
Read from Simon N's post.
Reducing Oxidation while Bottling

 

[foxy]

An English best bitter 20 gram of sugar for 19 litres at 4 C. Perfect carbonation.

 

[Mash Monster]

An English best bitter 20 gram of sugar for 19 litres at 4 C. Perfect carbonation.
View attachment 48904
View attachment 48905

, member: 2762"]
That looks neat. I went to Google Images to try and locate one but ended up with spiders and bazookas. Could you point me in the right direction, thanks.
[/QUOTE]

An English best bitter 20 gram of sugar for 19 litres at 4 C. Perfect carbonation.
View attachment 48904
View attachment 48905

Beer looks great
Was this fermented under pressure and bottled ?

 

[foxy]

, member: 2762"]
That looks neat. I went to Google Images to try and locate one but ended up with spiders and bazookas. Could you point me in the right direction, thanks.

Beer looks great
Was this fermented under pressure and bottled ?
[/QUOTE]
The only beers to consider using closed pressure fermentation are the NEIPA, and AIPA, you can also make a pseudo lager. Belgians and all ales are best left to ferment with zero or almost zero to let the yeast esters come through.
This is well worth a read, from a renown brewer also look at Spike Brewing Pressure Fermentation. https://terifahrendorf.com/Closed-Pressurized-Fermenatation.pdf

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

You might also like to read Under Pressure: The Impact of High(er) PSI Fermentations | exBEERiment Results!

(spoiler: no statistically significant differences were discovered, but he did like it from a process perspective)

 

[Bertie Doe]

I have 2 All Rounders and I love them.

Here are some of my lessons learned:

1. If you buy the small filter, make sure you get the Kegland one, as some of the Chinese copies don't have the small eyelet on them which is needed to attach it to the ball/dip tube.

My cheap Chinese copy filters arrived today. You're correct, they don't have the eyelets that allow you to fix to the float ball. Luckily some 4 lb bs fishing line goes thru' the mesh screen.