Foreign Secretary James Cleverly tells LGBT fans to be respectful -

[Bernie]

Agreed on your first point. Disagree on your last point. Countries like Qatar and Saudi are desperate for more engagement with The West. We are simply making it far too easy for them.

Why pick out Middle Eastern countries?
In southern Somalia, Somaliland, Mauritania and northern Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. In Sudan, Gambia, Uganda, Tanzania, and Sierra Leone, offenders can receive life imprisonment for homosexual acts, although the law is not enforced in Sierra Leone. In addition to criminalizing homosexuality, Nigeria has enacted legislation that would make it illegal for heterosexual family members, allies and friends of LGBT people to be supportive. According to Nigerian law, a heterosexual ally "who administers, witnesses, abets or aids" any form of gender non-conforming and homosexual activity could receive a 10-year jail sentence.

https://web.archive.org/web/2016080...yplanet.com/africa/gay-and-lesbian-travellers

 

[foxy]

Agreed on your first point. Disagree on your last point. Countries like Qatar and Saudi are desperate for more engagement with The West. We are simply making it far too easy for them.

UAE is that desperate for more engagement with the west that it abstained in the UN Security Council Resolution condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The middle eastern countries are in trade agreements with most other countries world wide but those other countries don't go telling them that they have to change their laws.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Why pick out Middle Eastern countries?

Because those that decide where the tournament should be played are turning a blind eye to these issues to make money.

 

[Bernie]

Because those that decide where the tournament should be played are turning a blind eye to these issues to make money.

The thread was about Cleverly telling people "not to be homosexual", which isn't true. Why do we trade with those African countries if not to make money?
It seems that most objections are virtue signalling, especially, by the players who will be instructed by their agents to make some timid but photogenic protest: about as effective as throwing soup at paintings to stop the use of petrol engines. If they were sincere they would refuse to play.

 

[HSD]

These countries need to be ostracised by the free world like South Africa were meaning no sport, trade or tourism.

They should be, they have oil, gas and a shed load of money so won’t be. They should never have been “allowed” to host, or rather buy it, not to mention the thousands of workers who have died in horrendous conditions and decades of Human rights abuses.

 

[micklupulo]

I think there is some confusion. Surely it is homosexual acts that are ilegal in Qatar not just "being gay" as the BBC would have it. What Cleverly meant was that people would be wise not to flaunt their orientation by their attire and behaviour certainly in public and probably in private. In no way was he endorsing the choice of venue or its laws. The outcry about this sage advice is confected. Laws in Britain maintaing "public decency" would restrain me and my wife making out on a train but I do not feel that my heterosexuality is being denied me!

 

[Brew_DD2]

Why pick out Middle Eastern countries?
In southern Somalia, Somaliland, Mauritania and northern Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. In Sudan, Gambia, Uganda, Tanzania, and Sierra Leone, offenders can receive life imprisonment for homosexual acts, although the law is not enforced in Sierra Leone. In addition to criminalizing homosexuality, Nigeria has enacted legislation that would make it illegal for heterosexual family members, allies and friends of LGBT people to be supportive. According to Nigerian law, a heterosexual ally "who administers, witnesses, abets or aids" any form of gender non-conforming and homosexual activity could receive a 10-year jail sentence.

https://web.archive.org/web/2016080...yplanet.com/africa/gay-and-lesbian-travellers

I'm picking them out because they are currently the worst offenders of sportwashing.

 

[Brew_DD2]

The thread was about Cleverly telling people "not to be homosexual", which isn't true. Why do we trade with those African countries if not to make money?
It seems that most objections are virtue signalling, especially, by the players who will be instructed by their agents to make some timid but photogenic protest: about as effective as throwing soup at paintings to stop the use of petrol engines. If they were sincere they would refuse to play.

I'd agree that if the players are genuinely outraged, they should refuse to go.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I think there is some confusion. Surely it is homosexual acts that are ilegal in Qatar not just "being gay" as the BBC would have it. What Cleverly meant was that people would be wise not to flaunt their orientation by their attire and behaviour certainly in public and probably in private. In no way was he endorsing the choice of venue or its laws. The outcry about this sage advice is confected. Laws in Britain maintaing "public decency" would restrain me and my wife making out on a train but I do not feel that my heterosexuality is being denied me!

Most gay people aren't stereotypes that prance around in rainbow coloured attire. It's not just the laws that are problematic, it's the severity of the sentences.

 

[Clint]

I wonder what "timid and photogenic" protests could be made? By the description it would have to be non aggressive and obviously visible and something that would not get them kick to death by the local constabulary while at the same time put across a stern and mind changing message to both international and primarily the Qatar government that they are there not to make money and will not stand for it!
Suggestions?

 

[micklupulo]

Most gay people aren't stereotypes that prance around in rainbow coloured attire. It's not just the laws that are problematic, it's the severity of the sentences.

I was not stereotyping gay people but as you imply they are not all exactly the same. Some dress flamboyantly but many do not. Some will be demonstrably affectionate in public but many keep things private. My post was carefully restricted to an attempt to interpret Cleverly's remark which in my view was sensible and probably made to to reduce the number of diplomatic headaches following the event.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The thread was about Cleverly telling people "not to be homosexual", which isn't true.

I don't think anyone said he was "telling" anyone not to be homosexual he asked them to show "a little bit of flex and compromise" he told fans travelling from England and Wales to be "respectful of the host nation" where same-sex activity is illegal, as has been said heterosexual couples kissing could get them a thrashing its not just about LGBT football fans.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

They should be, they have oil, gas and a shed load of money so won’t be. They should never have been “allowed” to host, or rather buy it, not to mention the thousands of workers who have died in horrendous conditions and decades of Human rights abuses.

Spot on @HSD

 

[dad_of_jon]

Another false equivalence. Telling someone not to wear football colours is quite different from telling them to not be gay. Of course it might be in their best interest, but it's a ridiculous thing to say.

Ok, maybe a bad example. I am not telling people not to be gay to be clear. My point about personal responsibility and an awareness of the environment still apply. Cleverly did not phase his guidance at all well, agreed. No doubt there will be those that are ignorant or arrogant visiting Qatar and its laws who get banged up and will be pleading for UK Government assistance.

 

[Donegal john]

So there are no gay men and women in Qatar ? The entire population are straight ?
Or do they conduct themselves in a manner that does not draw attention to themselves ?
you could not tell if some people are straight or gay by looking at them and others are overly flamboyant and proud of who they are. I think it was aimed at people showing respect for a different country and different laws And not getting into trouble for who they are.
Just like you can’t tell someone not to be gay you can’t tell someone not to be religious no matter how much it offends you.
If you go there dressed as Julian clarey then you are likely to get arrested as it is offensive in the eyes of their god. Not your place to tell them they are wrong.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Not your place to tell them they are wrong.

It is. They don't have to like it, but I think they are wrong, and will continue to say so. The reason it's an issue is because FIFA has selected a country that does not meet its own standards.

 

[Donegal john]

It is. They don't have to like it, but I think they are wrong, and will continue to say so. The reason it's an issue is because FIFA has selected a country that does not meet its own standards.

Regardless of how much it offends you are powerless to change either FIFA’s or Qatar’s mind.
Fifa are doing it for money and that is wrong but it’s their decision

 

[starseeker]

I think there is some confusion. Surely it is homosexual acts that are ilegal in Qatar not just "being gay" as the BBC would have it. What Cleverly meant was that people would be wise not to flaunt their orientation by their attire and behaviour certainly in public and probably in private. In no way was he endorsing the choice of venue or its laws. The outcry about this sage advice is confected. Laws in Britain maintaing "public decency" would restrain me and my wife making out on a train but I do not feel that my heterosexuality is being denied me!

Well said ,
As long as you did not go around holding hands, kissing etc in public, how would anybody know you were gay ?

 

[Twogunrocky]

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Qatar World Cup ambassador says being gay is "damage in the mind" and "homosexuality is spiritual harm".​

Two weeks before the football tournament begins in the Gulf state, former Qatari footballer Khalid Salman said being gay is "haram".

Two weeks before the football tournament begins in the Gulf state, former Qatari footballer Khalid Salman told a German public broadcaster being gay is "haram", or forbidden in Arabic.

In excerpts of the television interview shown on ZDF's news programme Heute Journal, Mr Salman said he has a problem with children seeing gay people.

Mr Salman went on to say homosexuality "is spiritual harm".

"During the World Cup, many things will come here to the country. Let's talk about gays," Mr Salman said in English, which was simultaneously dubbed into German in the TV segment.

"The most important thing is, everybody will accept that they come here. But they will have to accept our rules," he added.

When asked why it was haram, Mr Salman said: "I am not a strict Muslim but why is it haram? Because it is damage in the mind."

Interview cut short

The interview was immediately cut short by a press officer of the World Cup organising committee after Mr Salman described being gay as "damage in the mind", ZDF reported.

Around 1.2 million international visitors are expected in Qatar for the month-long tournament, which has been criticised ever since the gas-rich emirate was selected as host by Fifa in December 2010.

There have been concerns about the conservative country's treatment of homosexuals living in the country as well as LGBTQ tourists attending the World Cup.

World Cup organisers did not immediately respond to Sky News' request for comment.

Labour's shadow sports minister Jeff Smith said the onus was now on the World Cup organisers to condemn the comments.

"They need to say this person doesn't represent us, doesn't represent the ethos and the manner in which the World Cup is meant to be run, and say LGBT people, along with all other people, are welcome," he told BBC Radio 4's World at One.

Robbie de Santos from LGBT group Stonewall said he was surprised but not shocked by the views.

"It is shocking to hear such comments in the run up to what should be an absolutely joyous, inclusive, global celebration. Such a divisive comment is just really, really hard to hear," he said.

"I think that the tournament is going to happen, people are going to watch it, but it is going to be really uneasy for so many people to watch a tournament which has just been mired in so much controversy."

Calls for boycott

There have been calls for people to boycott the World Cup due to Qatar's stance on gay rights.

Opposition leader Sir Keir Starmer has said he and his Labour colleagues will not attend.

Foreign Secretary James Cleverly was accused of being "shockingly tone-deaf" last month after he urged LGBT football fans to be "respectful" of Qatar if they visit the country for the World Cup.

The Gulf state's foreign minister told Sky News those criticising the tournament are "arrogant".

"Preaching from a distance is not a solution," said Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al Thani.

"Calling to boycott the World Cup, or those who are not coming to the World Cup, it's their decision at the end of the day, but why deprive the people and the public from attending and enjoying the World Cup."

LGBT Qataris arrested and abused, rights group claims

It comes after a Human Rights Watch (HRW) report claimed security forces in Qatar have been arbitrarily arresting and abusing LGBT Qataris recently.

HRW said it had interviewed six LGBT Qataris, including four transgender women, one bisexual woman and one gay man, who reported being detained between 2019 and 2022.

They said they had been detained without charge in an underground prison in Doha and subjected to verbal and physical abuse, including kicking and punching.

One individual said they were held for two months in solitary confinement.

https://news.sky.com/story/being-gay-is-damage-in-the-mind-qatar-world-cup-ambassador-says-12741596