Fuel costs for running a brewery

[beermaker]

As you may be aware, I recently asked advice about shortening the brew day and some of the advice was to fit the HLT with kettle elements and a timer. Anyway, this got me thinking....... Way back in the early days of Rosecroft Brewery I built my copper from a stainless 9 gallon beer keg (I happened to have one lying around) and I made my own propane burner from the guts of a Baxi back boiler principally because propane was cheap. Nowadays though, propane is damned expensive stuff! I nearly had a coronary a moment ago when looking at refill costs for my bottles (£34 per bottle!!!!!!). I'm seriously starting to wonder if propane really is a viable economical fuel for my brewery!

Anyway, what I would like to know is this - How much does it cost to run a brewery on electricity? I understand I'll have to lay out a few quid to modify everything to electric from propane, but after that what are the running costs like? I reckon I get about 5 good brews out of a bottle of gas at the moment so it's roughly £7 per brew for fuel on propane. Before I go mad changing everything over I'd very much appreciate other peoples opinions!

Cheers!
Phil

 

[tbert33]

Might sound like a **** idea or need more development but could you buy a wood burning stove and use the top to boil?

 

[artyb]

i did think of boiling over a fire...

in the end
i had my burner adapted for natural gas,
and have a gas tap fitted by the boiler ... :party:

 

[Newtons Shed]

What size bottle are you using? I haven't done any brewing for some time on propane, I used to have the 19kg bottle (or even larger can't quite remember as moved house and before I packed it & someone had nicked it) and that seemed to last an age over 12 months doing one brew per month. From memory the cost different for the larger ones were similar price to the small 13kg and 19kg, never understood whty I want a smaller bottle for higher price. I also use a converted keg for HLT & boiler on a 5kw burner taking about an hour or just over to boil cold water without insulation on the kegs in a large detached garage and doors open.

I'd be interested to know the answer to this as I have no electrics in the shed yet my only option is gas and as you say it used to be cheaper then electric

 

[beermaker]

Not a **** idea at all - in fact Rosecroft Brewery started life on top of my mothers wood fired Rayburn! However, the change in infrastructure needed would be problematic.

I use 19kg bottles and I'm also considering filling the bottles myself at the petrol station using LPG (i have a little adapter to do this although I've never used it). I've been estimating some costs - at present I get about 5 brews from a big bottle of gas so at present costs it adds about £7 to a brew. Based on the assumption of using 3kw elements and at a cost of approximately 20p per kWh and having the elements on for 3 hours (1 hour boil, and two hours for heating mash and sparge liquor and bringing the runnings to the boil) I'm looking at 15 kWh so £3 per brew. Even looking at 20 kWh and 30p per kWh the costs are favourable - £6 per brew which is still cheaper than gas, albeit by not much but there are other advantages - not so much need for good ventilation, less fire risk, the electricity is (nearly) always there and won't run out half way through a brew.....

Mind, it'll still cost a bit to set up - need to uprate the power supply to my shed a bit, will need to buy elements, need to buy temp controller for HLT, associated connections, cables and switches to control, etc. Just redesigning the brewery schematic to take this into account and to work out what parts I need so I can fully cost it up.

 

[wilsoa1111]

electric maybe cheaper-unless can connect it to the mains gas- but unless u build in concealed elements u will be spending a good few minutes cleaning the elements unless its just water ur boiling- also will need it plugged into a ring main...

 

[beermaker]

good point about cleaning the elements - never considered that. Concealed elements not really viable as it's going to be retrofitted to a stainless beer keg. I don't mind a bit of cleaning, although now you've put the thought in my head I do quite like the simplicity of cleaning out the uncomplicated guts of my boiler. Natural gas not available in my shed without a lot of chew on there's more to this than I initially thought!!

 

[tbert33]

Only other thing i can think of is an industrial hotplate or make your own from an electric hob and a large baking tray.... but then its how much electric would it cost.

 

[wezil]

Hi im not sure refilling your bottle with lpg is a good idea!! Apart from the fact that it's illlegal to do this as you don't own the bottle, you'll probably find it works out more expensive as it has a degree of tax on it as it's a road fuel.( Anyway the price qouted for a refill dosn't seem that bad, I got quoted £43 for 13kg of butane not so long ago with a cylinder to return)!!!! :x

 

[Kevin Wood]

Indeed. You can get gas cylinders which are designed to be safely refillable at petrol stations but they are expensive. Most petrol station attendants are told not to allow customers to refill cylinders full stop, so even with the right cylinder you may be out of luck.

The issue is that you have no mechanism on a normal calor cylinder to prevent the cylinder overfilling. If this happens there is no space to accommodate the expansion of the liquid if the temperature rises, and the cylinder pressure can exceed safe limits. Refillable cylinders have a float valve to limit the fill level to normally around 80%.

In any case, with LPG at around 75 pence per litre it's not any more economical than a 47kg propane cylinder. A quick look at Flogas' site shows you can get one of them refilled for £65 which works out at just under 70p per litre.

With the loss of heat energy to the surroundings which you will experience with any gas burner as opposed to an electric element, I think that unless you are able to use natural gas, electricity will always be the cheapest solution. On the down side, elements don't last forever and they require more cleaning than the base of a copper heated by gas.

It's a dilemma I'm wrestling with at the moment with my new copper, although I don't really brew enough for the cost of gas to be such an issue. I think leccy might well win, though. :wha:

 

[johnnyboy1965]

As you may be aware, I recently asked advice about shortening the brew day and some of the advice was to fit the HLT with kettle elements and a timer. Anyway, this got me thinking....... Way back in the early days of Rosecroft Brewery I built my copper from a stainless 9 gallon beer keg (I happened to have one lying around) and I made my own propane burner from the guts of a Baxi back boiler principally because propane was cheap. Nowadays though, propane is damned expensive stuff! I nearly had a coronary a moment ago when looking at refill costs for my bottles (£34 per bottle!!!!!!). I'm seriously starting to wonder if propane really is a viable economical fuel for my brewery!

Anyway, what I would like to know is this - How much does it cost to run a brewery on electricity? I understand I'll have to lay out a few quid to modify everything to electric from propane, but after that what are the running costs like? I reckon I get about 5 good brews out of a bottle of gas at the moment so it's roughly £7 per brew for fuel on propane. Before I go mad changing everything over I'd very much appreciate other peoples opinions!

Cheers!
Phil

I use propane and its nowhere near £7.00 a brew.
Example recipe:-
Mash Liquor 15 Li
Batch sparge No.1 10.5 li
Batch sparge No. 2 10.5 li
Total 36 li Liquor
60 min boil
12kg Refill = £24.00 and I get 10 brews out of 12kg = £2.40 per brew

 

[johnnyboy1965]

electric maybe cheaper-unless can connect it to the mains gas- but unless u build in concealed elements u will be spending a good few minutes cleaning the elements unless its just water ur boiling- also will need it plugged into a ring main...

You cannot connect a portable gas burner the the gas main. Under any circumstances

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Sorry, my above calculations are wrong. It a 18kg gas bottle @£32.00 so it works out @ £3.20 per brew

 

[beermaker]

My burner is a "homebrew" job made from a baxi back boiler so may not be the most efficient! Its also slung underneath the copper with the burner head a good four or five inches from the base of the barrel, although it's mostly enclosed so the heat hits the bottom of the barrel. I think for convenience of cleaning I'll stick with gas for the copper but modify my HLT to electric for heating the mash and sparge liquor. Should save some time and cash and save faffing about pumping stuff everywhere! I'll also look at modifying the gas burner to make it more efficient - maybe lift the burner head closer to the bottom of the barrel and perhaps consider the addition of a forced air draught from a small fan to increase oxygen and improve the burn efficiency as it's normally aspirated at the moment.

Cheers
Phil