Has anyone used a Plastic Sprayer Bottle as a PB?

[Bart Fleming]

When using the 8 litre Spray Bottles do you modify or remove the air pumps? If so, how?

Some, I have left in. They do not leak and you can lock them into place at the handle. I have removed them in others by hacksawing the tube inside and fitting a rubber bung in the shortened lenght, peering through the top. Here's a photo of each one. The one on the right modified with a rubber bung.
Left in has not tainted the flavour, but do clean thoroughly first, they come with some sort of lubricant that needs to be removed.
Oh and replace the beer line ( the side with the wand and dip tube) with pvc tubing.

 

[Bart Fleming]

One final thing to try.
I've just put down another 1 week brew using 2 Jerry cans and setup for closed racking.
The wort is in the right and connected to an empty Jerry can on the left via gas connects fitted to the lid.
Connects are attached to the taps. A pressure release valve is plugged into the left vessel at the tap which is opened.
Both vessels will expand to 14psi.
After 3-4 days fermentation will be finished, the vessels disconnected and vessel in the left closed.
The wort will be cold crashed, finings injected via the tap, cold crashed another 2 days and then on day 7 both vessels reconnected via gas posts and beer lines (taps) and closed racked under pressure.
1 week wort to belly.

 

[Dutto]

I will give Wilko a memory jog before I go to bed tonight!

One of the great things that the EU has put in place is that all plastics now have to indicate the type of plastic that they are made from, so discovering whether or not they are made from HDPE or PP should be easy!

Here's hoping! :thumb:

 

[Dutto]

Just checked my email and this is the Wilko reply:

"Thanks again for contacting Wilko customer care.

Please see the response received from our Technical Team...

The bottle body is made of PE (polyethylene) and the Pump is made of (PP) polypropylene."​

Here are quotes from this site:

https://www.livestrong.com/article/158674-which-plastic-containers-can-i-safely-use/

Type 2: High-Density Polyethylene - Safe

Milk containers, detergent bottles, freezer bags and plastic grocery bags often contain high-density polyethylene, a relatively stiff plastic. Type 2 plastic neither contains bisphenol A nor phthalates. It is not known to contain other harmful chemicals. High-density polyethylene containers may have the symbol "HDPE" on them.​

Type 4: Low-Density Polyethylene - Safe

Frozen foods packaging and condiment squeeze bottles often contain Type 4 plastic because it is flexible and resistant to solvents. Type 4 plastic does not contain any known harmful chemicals. Low-density polyethylene containers may have the symbol "LDPE" on them.​

Type 5: Polypropylene - Safe

Polypropylene containers do not leach harmful chemicals into foods or liquids. They commonly contain yogurt, medicine, drinks, ketchup and medicines. Type 5 plastic is flexible, hard and semi-transparent and has high resistance to solvents. Polypropylene containers may have the symbol "PP" on them.​

So it looks as if the Wilko Spray Containers are "GO!"...

... and a Summer Project will need designing and costing out. :thumb:

 

[-Bezza-]

Hi!
Where are you sourcing your Jerry cans with fitted taps?

Plenty of them on Amazon - just search Jerry can with tap.

I was looking at them as I want to get a couple of 10-12 litre fermenters that can sit side-by-side in my brewfridge (which has limited space) so I can split a 15-16l brew across two vessels and experiment with yeast. Cleaning is the biggest concern I currently have.

 

[-Bezza-]

I've been using 20 litre Jerry cans fitted with brass air compressor connections for ales and 8 litre sprayers for lagers, since they can handle greater pressure. 3 of these will satisfy a 5 gallon brew. The beauty of this is that each vessel can have a different bag of hops for dry hopping. Here's a schematic to show my setup. It's cheap and easy and the sprayers are HDPE, so should be food safe. Included is a DYI pressure release valve/gauge.

That setup looks ideal and exactly what I had going on in my head.

Do you have further info on the fittings you have used and where you sourced them from, as a reference point?
What sort of pressure do you find the jerry cans and sprayer bottles can cope with?
It looks like you have fitted a gas valve onto the handle of the pressure pump - what's that for?
Any tips or learning points?

Loving your photoshop skills by the way!

 

[Bigcol49]

Plenty of them on Amazon - just search Jerry can with tap.

Hi!
There are loads with a tap on the cap, but they blow off under pressure.
As far as taps fitted near the base, I don't think that there are many 20 or 25 litre - I found one yesterday.
The problem is pressure limits - UN jerries are pressure tested to about 29psi.
There are no data on pressure limits on the jerries I've looked at - even the companies supplying don't have the info.
On top of that, the prices are outrageous - I can get a UN Jerry for £7: some of those with taps are £10 to £15 or more, plus delivery. I can get a Wilko FV with tap for £18.

 

[-Bezza-]

Hi!
There are loads with a tap on the cap, but they blow off under pressure.
As far as taps fitted near the base, I don't think that there are many 20 or 25 litre - I found one yesterday.
The problem is pressure limits - UN jerries are pressure tested to about 29psi.
There are no data on pressure limits on the jerries I've looked at - even the companies supplying don't have the info.
On top of that, the prices are outrageous - I can get a UN Jerry for £7: some of those with taps are £10 to £15 or more, plus delivery. I can get a Wilko FV with tap for £18.

Ah, I see. And I guess you can't fit your own tap either as you'd not be able to get you hand in the cap to screw a back nut in. Hmm...

Edit: Also somehow seemed to have missed the last 5 or 6 posts in the thread, so hadn't seen your later post. Sorry.

 

[Dutto]

.......... Cleaning is the biggest concern I currently have.

When a brew decides to have a look outside the FV then "cleaning" becomes one of the biggest concerns that all if us have! :bow:

It's a horrible feeling when you open the door of your Brewing Cave and "that smell" hits your nostrils and you immediately know how you are going to spend the next two hours! :wave:

 

[dad_of_jon]

Now awaiting response from Wilko "Technical Department".

A.K.A Frank and he only works every other Tuesday cos he's a freelance consultant

 

[-Bezza-]

When a brew decides to have a look outside the FV then "cleaning" becomes one of the biggest concerns that all if us have! :bow:

It's a horrible feeling when you open the door of your Brewing Cave and "that smell" hits your nostrils and you immediately know how you are going to spend the next two hours! :wave:

It's amazing how messy and sticky brewing can be. Fortunately I haven't had anything explode or otherwise escape - it's mostly the residue that I struggle to contain. There's something both disgusting and satisfying about the crud that's left in the bottom of an FV.

Anyway, thinking about it, I can probably clean the inside of a jerry can fermenter sufficiently using my pressure washer / steam cleaner and some oxyclean.

 

[Bart Fleming]

That setup looks ideal and exactly what I had going on in my head.

Do you have further info on the fittings you have used and where you sourced them from, as a reference point?
What sort of pressure do you find the jerry cans and sprayer bottles can cope with?
It looks like you have fitted a gas valve onto the handle of the pressure pump - what's that for?
Any tips or learning points?

Loving your photoshop skills by the way!

Hi Bezza,
The connectors are simply air compressor connectors. There are various types available. I've found the brass Nitto types are pretty good. You may be able to purchase them as a pack of 4 x male plugs and 1 x socket.
Do buy the brass ones though, not the cheaper plated ones that corrode quickly.
The 20.litre Jerrykegs can handle 14psi comfortably which is what I'm brewing at.
The sprayers are rated to 45psi... Good for lagers

 

[Dutto]

Hi Bezza,
The connectors are simply air compressor connectors. ..........

SWMBO caught me adding air-line connectors and a CO2 regulator to my Amazon Wishlist for when I start "Project Spray Container" so it's nice to know that I'm looking for the right stuff. :thumb:

 

[Dutto]

Okay, Wilko Spray Bottle bought on Friday, taken into the garage, dismantled, wiped clear of grease (it looked like Vaseline but maybe it wasn't) re-greased inside the pump with Vaseline, shortened the pipe to the valve, washed everything with cold water, re-assembled, filled with cold water and a splash of Tesco Thin Bleach and pumped up until the Pressure Relief Valve started to squeak and left overnight.

Today, I opened up the tap and managed to remove 5.5 of the 8 litres before the Sprayer (now re-named PB "C") ran out of pressure. This bodes well for when the PB runs out of CO2 pressure because I will only need to put in a few strokes of the pump to empty the PB. (*)

I washed out PB "C" with three re-fills of cold water, gave it a quick spray with StartSan and turned it upside down for fifteen minutes to drain before adding 24g of sugar and filling it to the 8 litre level with Pale Ale.

The rest of the Pale Ale went into 10 litre PB "B" and 6 x 650ml bottles (so I will have something to compare the new PB with when it's carbonated and conditioned) and the two PB's were put into Brew Fridge 2 ...

... after a small modification that I should have completed before I even started to wash PB "C" out. The photograph tells all.

I will be taking the Pale Ale to France next week and I may not be able to report back before June. However, if there is a problem with using PB "C" I will go down to the local Library and let everyone know what the problem is. Here's hoping that it's trouble free and the first of many!

Enjoy. :thumb:

(*)
If I remove the Pump without fitting a CO2 injection system I will lose the ability to drive out the brew from the PB when the natural CO2 is depleted.
Another solution that I have not yet researched but is almost certainly cheaper, is to fit a valve at the bottom of the PB so that all I would need to do to introduce air to the system would be to lift the Relief Valve or open up the top.
That bit is still "work in progress"! :thumb:

 

[Stephenj]

Sometimes I hate this forum for giving me so many ideas to do stuff. :smile6:

Off to wilko today I think

 

[Godsdog]

Okay, Wilko Spray Bottle bought on Friday, taken into the garage, dismantled, wiped clear of grease (it looked like Vaseline but maybe it wasn't) re-greased inside the pump with Vaseline, shortened the pipe to the valve, washed everything with cold water, re-assembled, filled with cold water and a splash of Tesco Thin Bleach and pumped up until the Pressure Relief Valve started to squeak and left overnight.

Today, I opened up the tap and managed to remove 5.5 of the 8 litres before the Sprayer (now re-named PB "C") ran out of pressure. This bodes well for when the PB runs out of CO2 pressure because I will only need to put in a few strokes of the pump to empty the PB. (*)

I washed out PB "C" with three re-fills of cold water, gave it a quick spray with StartSan and turned it upside down for fifteen minutes to drain before adding 24g of sugar and filling it to the 8 litre level with Pale Ale.

The rest of the Pale Ale went into 10 litre PB "B" and 6 x 650ml bottles (so I will have something to compare the new PB with when it's carbonated and conditioned) and the two PB's were put into Brew Fridge 2 ...

... after a small modification that I should have completed before I even started to wash PB "C" out. The photograph tells all.

View attachment 13063

I will be taking the Pale Ale to France next week and I may not be able to report back before June. However, if there is a problem with using PB "C" I will go down to the local Library and let everyone know what the problem is. Here's hoping that it's trouble free and the first of many!

Enjoy. :thumb:

(*)
If I remove the Pump without fitting a CO2 injection system I will lose the ability to drive out the brew from the PB when the natural CO2 is depleted.
Another solution that I have not yet researched but is almost certainly cheaper, is to fit a valve at the bottom of the PB so that all I would need to do to introduce air to the system would be to lift the Relief Valve or open up the top.
That bit is still "work in progress"! :thumb:

Forgive my ignorance but are you planning on serving your beer through the paint spayer gun like you would use if spraying a fence and how you gonna force carb with co2

 

[Dutto]

Forgive my ignorance but are you planning on serving your beer through the paint spayer gun like you would use if spraying a fence and how you gonna force carb with co2

I intend to just use the gun supplied. A) It has a "lock" to stop it being turned on accidentally. B) It can be totally dismantled for cleaning. I've removed the long spray wand attachment and today the PB has already carbonated enough to force Pale Ale out of the valve.

I may change the valve for something different if the brew comes out too "foamy"; but unlike other PB's I can actually let a bit of pressure off this one by lifting the Pressure Relief Valve (PRV) so foaming should be controllable.

With regard to carbonation, on the 10 litre PB that is sharing the Brew Fridge all I do is to crack open the cap and let a bit of air in when I run out of CO2. This is the same technique that is used on all MK's fitted with the "red cap" type of bung and used for many years, unfortunately, without a bottom tap it's not possible on the Sprayer.

Although I don't wish to pressure up the PB by running air through the brew (a sure-fire way to introduce an infection), I will probably have to do it for the last couple of litres. Not really a problem at the rate I drink beer when it's warm! An alternative that I'm considering for the long-term is either a bottom tap (cheapest option) or fitting up a CO2 system.

When I pressure tested the Spray Bottle, I pumped it up until the PRV lifted and was able to remove over 5 litres from the vessel before the pressure disappeared. With a brew, taking the beer/lager off at +/-1 litre per day I expect to be able to remove almost all of the brew before I run out of pressure. (As the pressure above the liquid falls, CO2 is released from the liquid so the pressure falls very slowly.) On this particular brew, because I am taking it to France, I have under carbonated it so that I don't have Pale Ale spraying all over the car.

Hope this answers the questions. If anyone has any bright ideas or sees a flaw in my own system then please let me know.:thumb:

BTW, even in France in the summer I drink my beer/lager at just below ambient. The PB's sit in the shade covered by a wet sheet to cool them. Perfect! :thumb1:

 

[-Bezza-]

Good effort Dutto. Remember to write "beer use only" on the side so Mrs Dutto doesn't try and cash you in early. :tinhat:

After a slightly failed bottle carbonation (possibly cold-crashed for too long or the sugar solution didn't mix properly), I submitted an initial application to SWMBO for a Cornelius setup, which was approved on the spot. Formal application will be submitted once I've done a few all-grain brews, just to make sure I can actually do it and it'll be worth it.

So definitely interested in seeing how these sprayers perform and options for adding in metal valves to link in with the kegs.

 

[Dutto]

Good effort Dutto. Remember to write "beer use only" on the side so Mrs Dutto doesn't try and cash you in early. :tinhat:

After a slightly failed bottle carbonation (possibly cold-crashed for too long or the sugar solution didn't mix properly), I submitted an initial application to SWMBO for a Cornelius setup, which was approved on the spot. Formal application will be submitted once I've done a few all-grain brews, just to make sure I can actually do it and it'll be worth it.

So definitely interested in seeing how these sprayers perform and options for adding in metal valves to link in with the kegs.

Sawing the handle off to get it to fit in the fridge was a stroke of genius as SWMBO asked how I was going to pump it up without a handle. i.e. If I can't pump it up she won't be using it "accidentally" with weedkiller! :thumb:

I've looked at getting a Corny Keg set-up and if I was starting off from scratch again I would definitely go for it. However, I'm too far along the road with plastic to beg and grovel for one because I know the inevitable question "Why did you buy all that gear then?" will be asked before the refusal comes!

I wish you well but I have to ask "What did you have to promise on bended knee to get approval?" and BTW, asking for and getting approval when SWMBO is asleep, watching a soap on TV or bragging to a friend how loving she is doesn't count as it can be retracted in a flash!

My only regret is that my Dad told me all these things well before I got married and I still fell into the trap ... :wave:

... three times! :headbang: :headbang:

PS

One reason for NOT going for a Corny Keg system is that the smaller sizes are almost as expensive as the big ones and I like the flexibility of my current set-up.

Also, check out the photo above of the CO2 connected set-up.

 

[Bigcol49]

I submitted an initial application to SWMBO for a Cornelius setup, which was approved on the spot.

Hi!
What's the interest rate like?