Has my lager turned into vinigar ?

[peter nemec]

Hi all,

Sorry to bother you, but I can't help posting this question about my lager attempt, that has probably gone wrong.

I brewed a small 10L (2.5gallon) batch with only pilsner malt, Wyeast 2007, and some Saaz hops. For priming, I used brewing sugar, 3 grams into each bottle while bottling. Brewed with BIAB meathod.

Had my lager in primary for 14 days (10 days in shed outside with temp between 6-8 degrees C, and then 4 days inside with temp naturally raised to 17-18C.

OG 1058 ----> FG 1015 @ 5.64 abv

I then bottled my beer. I sanitized everything, bottles, syphoning hoses, bottle filler, crown caps, you name it... same procedule like I always do, no shortcuts.

I drank the hydrometer sample before bottling and it tasted great, no off flavors, I could taste malt, like you do in lagers and light bitterness, I was no expecting that though it tasted allright

I placed my bottles in the fridge for 3x weeks at 4 degrees C, and tasted 2x half pint bottles to see how things are progressing, and became shocked how terrible the taste was. Color was nice and clear, but no carbonation what so ever and the taste was sour, and stale like when you sometimes order a beer at the pub, and the barrel has been opened for some time and you get the bottom barrel leftovers,which taste stale, like socks .

No idea why this happened, when before bottling, it was fine and after laggering for 3x weeks, it sucks. I also made another batch of lager kit, which is one week younger as this biab batch, and that one is not bad, and my biab is. I though it would be the other way round as I did not pay as much attention to the kit, as I did to the biab.

Any ideas ?
Cheers
Peter

 

[foxbat]

Bottles won't carbonate in the fridge because the yeast has gone dormant. Keep them at room temperature for a few weeks then put them in the fridge.

You didn't mention priming sugar, I assume you did add some. [edit: yes you did, I see it now]

 

[The Baron]

Yeah I see you did add priming sugar at 3 grams which should be enough. As Foxbat says stick them in a warm place 18 to 22c for 2 weeks and then chill before serving and try one if that is improving try and leave a little longer if needed should be ok then. The beer has not conditioned and will have a flat taste also if you used a proper lager yeast yopu may get a sulphur smell taste which will dissipate with conditioning and maybe what you are detecting time and patience is the homebrewers best friend

 

[foxbat]

At this stage with the yeast all at the bottom of the bottle you will probably need to roll each one a few times to stir it back up once the bottles have warmed to room temperature.

 

[Leon103]

Just some observations

You could have done with fermenting for longer. At least a month at those temps.

You then should raise the temp forms fews. I would have them lagered the beer before priming. As stated for priming and carbonation to work you need warmer temperature

 

[peter nemec]

Thanks very much all, appreciate so many responses in such a short while. I took them out of the fridge, and will let them stand at warmer temp for 2 weeks, to see whats what, and update you then. I took reading 14 days into primary fermentation and 1015 was what I was aiming for, which is why I botted it then, but I guess I could have waited another week or two before racking.

The one thing I can't get my head around was then the hydrometer sample I drunk was good, and then, 3x weeks later, it sucks, like I said, stale, acid, sourish... I am really curious to see if the sourness gets wors or better with time. Will see, and will update you. Interestigly that the lager kit was already perfectly carbed UP and I placed it straight in the fridge and it only has been there for 2x weeks , and it carbs and retains head nicely ( i used Brewferm dry lager yeast, as oppososed to Wyeast 2007 lager liquid yeast with my biab batch.)

Cheers all

Peter

 

[Leon103]

What bottles and caps did you use

 

[Dads_Ale]

I am bit worried that the beer has oxidised from a lack of fermentation in the bottle meaning the oxygen in the headspace has had time to oxidise the beer essentially creating a vinegar type taste. Hopefully not but only time will tell. Fingers crossed

 

[pms67]

I am bit worried that the beer has oxidised from a lack of fermentation in the bottle meaning the oxygen in the headspace has had time to oxidise the beer essentially creating a vinegar type taste. Hopefully not but only time will tell. Fingers crossed

This has happened to me a couple of times, ended up like vinegar/nail polish.
Almost certainly some sort of infection imo???

 

[peter nemec]

Hello again fellas,

Bottles I used were recycled bottles, I had done 10 bathes in them already, I always thoroughly wash them before use, and had no problems, I also used recycled bottles for the kit lager batch which turned out OK so far... New Crown caps obviously, bought at local home brew shop, which I always sanitize prior capping.

Hmmm, the oxidisation makes me worry now, do you all reckon that I should have stored thr bottles for a week or two at warmer temp, before putting then in fridge for laggering ?

Cheers,

Peter

 

[Zephyr259]

Hmmm, the oxidisation makes me worry now, do you all reckon that I should have stored thr bottles for a week or two at warmer temp, before putting then in fridge for laggering?

That's exactly right, regardless of the beer style, once bottled it needs to be kept warm for a while to carbonate, standard rule of thumb is 2 weeks, but some higher abv beers will need longer. Once carbonated move them somewhere cool for storage, if lagering in the bottle then chill them right down for that period instead.

Good luck, hope it comes good.

 

[peter nemec]

Thanks again, will follow all your advise in my upcoming brews.

Happy homebrewing y'all

 

[Leon103]

Bathing with your bottles may be the issue :thumbd:

 

[peter nemec]

Hi Leon,

can you elaborate on what you mean the issue could be ?

Cheers

Peter

 

[peter nemec]

Hi guys,

coming back with an update after over 2 weeks. I have given my beer a warm rest, and chilled one bottle today, and just now cracked it open. It is unbelievable, but it actually "fixed" itself and I am not tasting ANY of the off flavours I described earlier, and still can't believe it. The beer has made an 180 degrees turn, WTF ? It does not taste like lager neither like a pale ale, It is a bit sweet, little bit of malt, not much bitterness and it's carbed up properly and I do taste alcohol cause it 5.64 ABV Wooow. I would have never expected that it can turn from sh*t to this...

 

[Sandimas]

I have given my beer a warm rest, and chilled one bottle today, and just now cracked it open. It is unbelievable, but it actually "fixed" itself and I am not tasting ANY of the off flavours I described earlier, and still can't believe it. The beer has made an 180 degrees turn, WTF ? It does not taste like lager neither like a pale ale, It is a bit sweet, little bit of malt, not much bitterness and it's carbed up properly and I do taste alcohol cause it 5.64 ABV Wooow. I would have never expected that it can turn from sh*t to this...

That's lager for you.

Unlike other beers, some of which you can drink straight from the FV (been there!) lager needs a long conditioning time, up to 12 weeks. Some methods (raising the temp 3/4 way through fermentation) reckon they can reduce this time, but of all the types of beer I've made lager seems to be the one that suddenly transforms itself from an ugly duckling into a swan. I've just brewed one myself and will be trying to keep my hands off it for at least a month.

 

[peter nemec]

Hi Darrellm,

thanks for sharing the info. Yeah I am a newbie in homebrewing, I've done 10 batches of ale, and this was my first lager experiment, and yeahhh I know it's hard to keep your hands and mouth off of the brew , especially when I am always thirsty :). I have got a Kolsch is my fermenter now which I dry hopped and gonna bottle tomorrow, and then try to resist the temptations for a couple weeks, how long do you reckon I need to condition my Kolsch for ???...

Cheers,

Peter

 

[Sandimas]

Sorry no idea, I'm a traditionalist, I brew beer and lager, I've no idea what a Kolsch or Saison is let alone brewing one.