Lagering

[luckyeddie]

OK guys, this isn't going to be relevant to me for a couple of weeks, but I kicked off a lager today (see LE AG#8 - Payback) for the brother in law.

When I get round to lagering, is it better to stick the full 20 litre FV in the fridge or can it be split down into 10 * 2 litre PETs or 4 * 5 litre PETs??

 

[Good Ed]

I'd say you'll be fine splitting it down into PET bottles; I've done this and it turned out good, I've also split 23L into 5 demi johns in the shed over the winter. I've now got a fridge so will use that for the full 23L the next time I do a lager.

 

[luckyeddie]

Thanks, Good Ed. I will be lagering in a fridge - I have two now in a spare bedroom. I'm just calibrating the new one at the moment. The only reason I'm not prepared to put the FV in the fridge is that would mean carrying it upstairs - and malty stair carpet is grounds for divorce. No problem with carrying those 5 litre water bottles upstairs though.

Mind you, if that (divorce) were to happen, I would demand custody of the yeasties

 

[shearclass]

I need lager help too.

Re the below, would you allow the beer to carbonate in the bottles before chilling? OR would you chill, then bring in the warm to carbonate?

I assume that if 2L bottles are acceptable, then 500ml glass bottles are also acceptable to use in the manner below?

Cheers

 

[Good Ed]

You would normally lager for a number of weeks and then prime at the end of this process

 

[luckyeddie]

I need lager help too.

Re the below, would you allow the beer to carbonate in the bottles before chilling? OR would you chill, then bring in the warm to carbonate?

I assume that if 2L bottles are acceptable, then 500ml glass bottles are also acceptable to use in the manner below?

Cheers

A great source of information on lager and lagering is John Palmer's book...

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10.html

 

[luckyeddie]

The plan...

My lager is chuckling away through its primary fermentation phase. I took all the shelves out of the fridge and made a wooden shelf for the FV to sit on. There was not a lot af headspace - certainly nowhere near enough to accommodate an airlock on the top - so I stuck a blowoff tube in the bung, connected a syphon tube to it and stuck the other end into a water-filled PET bottle in the door.

I have the fridge on the lowest (i.e. highest temperature) setting. I'd like to keep it at 12C for the duration of the primary fermentation but it crept down to 10C overnight. 5 minutes with the door open got the air temperature in the fridge back up to 12, but I don't think it will be an issue (I'm off on holiday for Zombie Jesus Day, so it'll just have to look after itself).

Here's where I might need some advice. Could someone who knows a bit about lager (I have never done one before) check the following and let me know if I'm on the right lines ...

Because I pitched at 20C and then reduced the temperature down to what it is now, there is a possibility that I will generate some diacetyl in the lager, and seeing as my brother in law drinks swill (aka Carling, US Budweiser etc), my lager will actually have some taste and therefore may not be to his liking. Consequently, when the primary is winding down, probably in a week or two, I shall let the temperature come up to 15C for a couple of days to give the lager yeasts a chance to chew their way through the diacetyl to clean it up. Then, I shall rack to 4 x 5 litre PET containers, crank the temperature down to 6C for another 4-6 weeks, prime and bottle.

 

[Good Ed]

You've got it Eddie :thumb:

This is from Aleman "ferment 1 day for each degree Plato (1 Plato = 4 Gravity) at 12-14C, raise temperature to 18C for last 2 days for the Diacetyl rest. Normally to lager for 1 week for each degree Plato, but 4-6 weeks achieves good results."

I have found my fermentation going a bit faster than 4 points per day, so best to check so that when you do the Diacetyl rest, there's something to go on. Also lagering temperature should be about 10C below fermentation temperature, or 1-2C. I can only get my fridge down to 4C, so that's it.

 

[luckyeddie]

When I was calibrating my fridge the other day it got down to 2C easily, so I'll go with that. At the moment, it's on the warmest setting and is registering 10-11C. Short of opening the door every half an hour, I cannot get it any higher. Fermentation is still quite rapid - a gloop every 2 or 3 seconds. I don't mind if it takes another week or two before it's ready for the diacetyl rest because I'm going on holiday for Easter and will leave it to look after itself.

 

[shearclass]

hmm so by keeping my lager at 12C for the last fortnight after the radid initial fermentation has finished, I have been acheiving what exactly? I trasnferre the brew from initial bucket to second bucket after it had been fermenting for a fortnight, then it's been in this second bucket for another fortnight now.

Have i ruined it? What is this "Diacetyl rest" that happens when brew is at 18C for 2 days?

Will this have happened during the last fortnight when it's beenat 12C?

I am going to move the brew tonight so i can put it in water in the garage and chill it a few mroe degress tha tway, but in current weatehr it's not going to get to 2C until i can fidn a cheap or free 2nd hand fridge.

 

[luckyeddie]

I doubt very much whether you've ruined it at all - in fact, to a discerning beer drinker, you've probably improved it a thousandfold. You will still have a passable (possibly an exceptional) lager. Diacetyl compounds are just buttery/butterscotch 'off-flavours' in lager (unwanted in a commercial pub lager where blandness is deemed to be a virtue) - possibly beneficial to the brew to someone who values flavour over just coldness, but seeing as though I am not, never have been and never will be (probably) a lager drinker, I don't know.

I have to stress here that I am trying to brew something that the typical English pub lager drinker (my brother in law in particular) would not turn his nose at - and by 'typical pub lager', I mean the (in my mind) tasteless swill that goes by the name of Budweiser, Carling, Miller etc and not stuff like Urquell, Budvar, Grolsch, Jupiler etc.

From what I can gather reading John Palmer's book, diacetyl ketones are generated during the early stages of lager yeastie work, especially when you pitch at normal (e.g. for ale) pitching temperatures then gradually lowering the temperature to 12C. That's what I did. If I knew then what I knew now, I would have put both wort and starter in the fridge overnight and then pitched. But I didn't.

I reckon you'll be fine. It sounds as though you know a damned sight more about lager than I do - and more than I ever will.

 

[shearclass]

It sounds as though you know a damned sight more about lager than I do - and more than I ever will.

No way! I'm only doing a kit! I know nothing! I do like lager, but i don't know much about it, nor do I know much about home brewing in general.

it's guys like you that have taught me all i know.

 

[shearclass]

Also, this lager was supposed to be a little bland, as it was going to be for my girlfriend. She bungs lime in with it anyway, so who cares what it tastes like! Once i've done this, I'm going to do a pilsner kit. am going to add hopped spray malt, brew it a little short, and I'm going to dry hop it.

This will be for me, rather than my girlfriend. The hoppier it is, the less likely she is to drink it

 

[luckyeddie]

Lime?

How many shovels full?

(Old Irish joke)

 

[doghouse gav]

im too am attempting a lager for the first time. i pitched the yeast at 12c and have kept it at 12c for 10 days now. going to move to another fv for a few days at 18c then what?
i cannot get my lager down to 2c so would moving it back to 12c for 3 weeks then bottle be ok?

once ive primed and bottled what temp should i carbonate at? 12c or 20c like i would for a beer?

this lager lark is to much work for a stout drinker like me! :drink:
it had better taste out of this world after all this! :

 

[luckyeddie]

I reckon 'as cold as you can get it' would be fine. After bottling and priming, the old 'few days in the airing cupboard then back in the fridge' would do the trick. At least, that's what I'm aiming to do. I'm going to use 2 litre PET bottles for bottling and will give them the daily 'squeeze test' to check carbonation, then when they firm up, back in the fridge.

 

[shearclass]

For the 2 litre PETs, after largering, can you simply unscrew the lid, and sugar, then carbonate?

I am not having any joy finding a cheap as chips fridge, and meanwhile my lager is sat in fermentation bucket in garage at 12C. Been like than for over a month now, though i did transfer it from one bucket to another after 2 weeks.

I have a spare freezer, but the bucket won't fit into it. I was thinking about using this on it's warmest setting until i have a fridge, but in order to do this i'll need to split it into litre plastic bottles first.

 

[luckyeddie]

For the 2 litre PETs, after largering, can you simply unscrew the lid, and sugar, then carbonate?

I am not having any joy finding a cheap as chips fridge, and meanwhile my lager is sat in fermentation bucket in garage at 12C. Been like than for over a month now, though i did transfer it from one bucket to another after 2 weeks.

I have a spare freezer, but the bucket won't fit into it. I was thinking about using this on it's warmest setting until i have a fridge, but in order to do this i'll need to split it into litre plastic bottles first.

That'll work. Screw the top back on, give them a good shake up to dissolve the sugar, in the airing cupboard for 2 or 3 days then back in the fridge/under the wet towels in the garage.

 

[shearclass]

That'll work. Screw the top back on, give them a good shake up to dissolve the sugar, in the airing cupboard for 2 or 3 days then back in the fridge/under the wet towels in the

Thanks Eddie.

I may just go to supermarket and buy 4 x 5 litre water bottles, use the water to set away my next brew and use the bottles to lager my lager. :hmm: Will have to try lagering in a freezer that is set to the warmest temp. Apart from the potential of the bottles exploding, do you think there would be any adverse affects on the lager if it froze? I am inclined to think it will be fine in the warmest setting on the freezer though. I rememebr aleman saying you can lager at -1, so i wonder if it would hurt if it wasa degree ro too colder than that.

I need to get a cheap fridge damn it. :shock:

 

[Aleman]

A freezer on it's maximum setting will get much colder than you think . . .try -10 or -12C . . . and that is enough to freeze most alcoholic beverages.

Ideally you need to lager at -1 to 2C in as big a bulk as you can . . .whatever you do don't lager (which clears the beer) then add sugar and shake (as that stirs up everything that has settled)