NEIPA - more bitter than expected, what did I do wrong?

[BottlesCansCraft]

Hi,

I brewed a NEIPA about a month or so ago, and every pour I've had from this batch has been so much more bitter than expected. I've brewed NEIPAs before without too much of an issue, but changed up my hop additions/timings in this brew.

Is there anything I have done that would make this so bitter? The only thing I can think of is I added my whirlpool hops sooner than norm after the boil, so may of attributed bitterness by accident there

Thanks

RECIPE (using brewers friend)
Title: CBC NEIPA - Citra, Mosaic & Ekuanot (no wheat)

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Specialty IPA: New England IPA
Boil Time: 30 min
Batch Size: 18 liters (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size: 20.9 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.051
Efficiency: 70% (ending kettle)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.059
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 6.23%
IBU (tinseth): 21.65
SRM (morey): 5.39
Mash pH: 5.08

FERMENTABLES:
3.6 kg - Golden Promise (71.3%)
0.4 kg - Dextrine Malt (7.9%)
0.2 kg - Pale Wheat Malt (4%)
0.2 kg - Acidulated (4%)
0.65 kg - Flaked Oats (12.9%)

HOPS:
10 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 11.86
15 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °C, IBU: 4.58
15 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °C, IBU: 5.21
50 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 0 days
40 g - Ekuanot, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 0 days
50 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 0 days

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
4 g - Calcium Chloride (dihydrate), Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
4 g - Citric acid, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
1 each - Yeast Nutrient, Time: 60 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Lallemand - Verdant IPA
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 80%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 17.78 - 22.78 C
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

PRIMING:
Method: sucrose
CO2 Level: 2.35 Volumes

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: 27625
Ca2: 85
Mg2: 6
Na: 38
Cl: 150
SO4: 82
HCO3: 194

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Batch Sparge, Start Temp: 67 C, Target Temp: 67 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 15 L
2) Batch Sparge, Start Temp: -- C, Target Temp: 75 C, Amount: 5 L

WATER REQUIREMENTS:
Total strike volume, 27.1L
Mash volume with grains, 30.4L
Grain absorption losses, -5.3L
Mash Lauter Tun losses, -0.9L
Pre boil volume, 20.9L
Boil off losses, -2.8L
Hops absorption losses (first wort, boil, aroma), -0.1L
Post boil volume (equipment estimates 18 L), 18L
Hops absorption losses (whirlpool, hop stand), -0.2L
Estimated amount in fermentor, 17.8L

Total Water Needed: 27.1L

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

How quickly did you chill it, and what was your whirlpool temperature?

NEIPA's do tend to get more bitter in my experience as time goes on, as the fresh hop flavours wear off.

I never use boil hops in NEIPA's, first hop addition is always the whirlpool for me.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Also how fresh is the beer? I know you need to drink these beers fresh, but too fresh and there can be a bit of hop burn that will subside after a week or two. But 30 min hop additions along with a long cool time will pull some IBU's too.

Having said that I prefer a NEIPIA with a bit of bitterness. I've done a clone of Verdant Even Sharks Need Water as s kit that they helped pull together with the Malt Miller and it was delicious and that came out as 34 IBU's calculated. Making my mouth water just thinking about it.

 

[BottlesCansCraft]

How quickly did you chill it, and what was your whirlpool temperature?

NEIPA's do tend to get more bitter in my experience as time goes on, as the fresh hop flavours wear off.

I never use boil hops in NEIPA's, first hop addition is always the whirlpool for me.

My method of chill is an ice bath (with admittedly not much ice so it can take a while). Initial temp for the first addition would of probably been around 90 degrees celcius.

I hadn't boil hops in a few others I did, but saw lots of other breweries use them in their brew sheets in a very small percentage. I didn't think 20 IBU would be that bad

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

It depends on your taste to be honest.

I know on Brewfather the IBU for a NEIPA starts at 25, but that's too bitter for me in a NEIPA, once the freshness wears off.

 

[BottlesCansCraft]

Also how fresh is the beer? I know you need to drink these beers fresh, but too fresh and there can be a bit of hop burn that will subside after a week or two. But 30 min hop additions along with a long cool time will pull some IBU's too.

Having said that I prefer a NEIPIA with a bit of bitterness. I've done a clone of Verdant Even Sharks Need Water as s kit that they helped pull together with the Malt Miller and it was delicious and that came out as 34 IBU's calculated. Making my mouth water just thinking about it.

I've drank it every few days over the past month after conditioning and its remained consistantly bitter, it not the hop burn kid, it's more the bitter you'd get in a ESB style.

I thought the same with this recipe, so thought I'd chuck a smll amount in for 20 IBUs as the brewsheet for a few of verdant brews are the same. Just can't seem to match the taste with the action so far

 

[Buffers brewery]

When I brew NEIPA the first hop addition is at flame out.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I've drank it every few days over the past month after conditioning and its remained consistantly bitter, it not the hop burn kid, it's more the bitter you'd get in a ESB style.

Perhaps you picked up some astringency from your dry hop, especially if you threw them in loose.

 

[The Baron]

Whirlpool for me and cut the dry hop down to a smaller one and stick it in the whirlpool. I do not whirlpool above 80c too to cut down on any bitter/IBU extraction.
I have just noticed you have no IBU figure for dry hops which do contribute IBU's or perceived bitterness IMO and thats why I push it into the whirlpool as a lot of recipe generators do not account for this

 

[The Baron]

Just as a addition to this thread I have just started to use a enzyme from CML which helps to boost the hop flavour it also means you can reduce the amount of hops which in turn will reduce the IBU contribution.
I am about to do a IPA next week with it, here is a lift from the CML site or you can search the tinterweb to learn more
Aromazyme. The application of Aromazyme during fermentation improves hop utilization by releasing additional volatile aroma compounds, thereby decreasing overall hop quantities or using less sophisticated hop varieties. Basically it means more hop aroma. The recommended dosage is 5g/hL (1g per 20 litres). Dilute the enzyme in an adequate amount of water (~ 1g in 10ml) to ensure even distribution within the fermenter.

 

[hoppyscotty]

On my journey to hop aroma I’ve landed on the rule of keep oxygen away at all costs. Any exposure to o2 will have an instant impact with this style of beer. I’ve had NEIPA’s in the keg for months and still get amazing hop aroma. The thing that reduces it is as headspace on the keg increases as you drink it. When I clean a spent keg thhe co2 in there smells lovely. All aroma that should have stayed in the beer. A reusable key keg would be an awesome invention.

 

[malhal]

If you didn't acidify your sparge water then it could be tannins astringency from the grains.

"pH rising at the end of sparge and extracting tannins due to high alkalinity of the sparge water might be the most common fault in craft beer, commercial or home. Once you understand what that astringency feels/tastes like it’s amazing how many beers you’ll pick it up in."
Acidify sparge water when batch sparging?

 

[BottlesCansCraft]

Perhaps you picked up some astringency from your dry hop, especially if you threw them in loose.

How would throwing them loose affect astringency?

I had used hop socks in the past, but when i removed them, all the hop pellets had disintegranted through leaving very little, so I didnt bother again

 

[BottlesCansCraft]

Whirlpool for me and cut the dry hop down to a smaller one and stick it in the whirlpool. I do not whirlpool above 80c too to cut down on any bitter/IBU extraction.
I have just noticed you have no IBU figure for dry hops which do contribute IBU's or perceived bitterness IMO and thats why I push it into the whirlpool as a lot of recipe generators do not account for this

I use brewers friend for recipe calcs and it never adds IBUs for dry hops (what do you use to calculate?), i didnt think it made that much difference and was more about flavour and aroma for dry hop.

How would swapping hops from dry hop to whirlpool reduce bitterness?

 

[Stu's Brews]

If you didn't acidify your sparge water then it could be tannins astringency from the grains.

"pH rising at the end of sparge and extracting tannins due to high alkalinity of the sparge water might be the most common fault in craft beer, commercial or home. Once you understand what that astringency feels/tastes like it’s amazing how many beers you’ll pick it up in."
Acidify sparge water when batch sparging?

Fully agree with this.

There are a whole host of things that can affect perceived bitterness beyond IBUs. Mash pH, sparge water pH, water chemistry, whirlpool temperature, dry hop duration and temperature, conditioning time, etc.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

How would throwing them loose affect astringency?

No idea on the science - just something I have noticed with big dry hops and throwing them in loose. So I don't do it anymore.

 

[The Baron]

I use brewers friend for recipe calcs and it never adds IBUs for dry hops (what do you use to calculate?), i didnt think it made that much difference and was more about flavour and aroma for dry hop.

How would swapping hops from dry hop to whirlpool reduce bitterness?

Hi I use Brewers Friend and it calcs IBU's on dry hop for me. I wonder if it is to do with the settings in it

 

[Pennine]

I think Citra is a horrible hop to use at 15 min or more in the boil. The bitterness is harsh and it tastes like cat **** to me. Terrible. Also with a slow cool I wouldn't add any at 30 min.

If you do want want to bump up the bitterness some I would stick with magnum.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Well using loose hops you get far more utilisation of the hops and increase the chance of hop burn. I use them loose in my large conical fermenter, no other way to use them really. Once you know how they affect the beer you can account for the negative impacts.

If the beer is a bit more bitter than you’d like then that is no bad thing really. Just chalk it up to experience and next time you brew the same beer make adjustments. It’s all part of the process. If you can’t finish the beer then feel free to send it to me I love a slightly bitter NEIPA. It sounds delicious!

 

[The Baron]

Hi BCC go into Brewers friend then select Equipment Profiles and then go to the hop option section and the default you can set is suggested @ 5% that should give you a average IBU reading for dry hopping