New to home brew - heating?

[phillsmit]

Hi i am very new to this as a have been given a lager starter kit for christmas.

I tried a wet run last night and struggled to regulate the temperature.
I was thinking of buying a £30 thermostat heating mat that regulates between 22 and 27 degrees C.
I thought this would be the simpliest for a beginner as it didnt need sterlising or maintaining as it had a stat unlike the belts.

My query is about the secondary fermentation. I will be doing this in plastic pet bottles. It says to keep the temperature above 18 degree C during secondary fermentation. I assume this also has an upper limit? would this be about 27 degrees?

Would it be a good idea to put a tray on the heating tray that i'm thinking of buying and put the plastic bottles on this? or is 22-27 degrees not suitable to secondary fermentation? (you can not change the stat on the mat)

If that is not ideal how would you suggest maintaining over 18 degrees in the UK winter?

 

[oldbloke]

Does the kit say 22 to 27? That's higher than most wines and at least some beers are usually done. I thought most people did 21 or below.
I use a 10 quid aquarium heater to keep a waterbath at 20 and stick my fermenting vessels in that.

Even with modern insulated hot water tanks, most airing cupboards are still warm enough.

How warm do you keep your home? It's probably enough, especially if you wrap the fermenter up in some sort of insulation (big fluffy towel if nowt else) - the process gives off heat and will help keep the temp up. If it does get cool it'll just slow the process down, as long as it doesn't get really low, like 14 or under.

 

[Walker]

if the kit comes with lager yeast then a lower range is required, ale yeast is best at 19-20c i'd say, and some lagers require 9-14, my current one is fine at 14/15c but could go to 12 im told

some lager kits do use ale yeast though, i'd aim for 19 if this is the case

also remember the fermenting beer will be giving off its own gentle heat from the process so if the surrounding environement is not hotter and not too much cooler than the ideal ferment temp you'll be ok, i my recent ale stayed at 19c in a room that was 16c constantly

 

[phillsmit]

my beer kit says keep between 21 and 27. During fermentation. Water bath idea sounds good though.

 

[phillsmit]

think i might try the water bath idea do you think this will still be ok as i have a tap on the bottom of my fermenter.

 

[Runwell-Steve]

Hi,

What kit have you got.

21 - 27 is very high, yes it will ferment quickly but you run the risk of the yeast being too warm and hence throwing off lots of estery flavours, which are undesirable in lager.

There are two basic types of yeast for beer, Saccharomyces cerevisiae is the Ale Yeast, this ferments Warm and is generally referred to as a Top Fermenting yeast. This is the type of yeast yeast used in the vast majority of kit beers, whether Ale or Lager, and the yeast used to brew just about all beer except for lager. There are variations of this yeast, but they all perform best when the wort is close to 20 degrees centigrade, if the yeast gets much warmer they can often produce off flavours. I usually ferment with these yeasts in a temperature controlled cupboard at 18.5 degrees, due to yeast activity the wort tends to be a couple of degrees warmer than the cupboard.

The other yeast is Saccharomyces pastorianus, this is a cool fermenting yeast, also known as bottom fermenting yeast. This is used to ferment nearly all lager, and is also used in a few lager kits. This yeast produces it's best beer when it is working at about 12 degrees C.
There are numerous variations of this yeast as well, but they all work best at the same temperature.

You will find that most of the instructions supplied with a kit are not entirely accurate, especially the bit about how long it will take to ferment and when it will be ready to drink.

2 weeks fermentation at 20 degrees C. Then bottle and leave in a warm place (approx 20C) for a week, then move somewhere cooler and leave as long as you can, preferably at least 4 weeks.

 

[phillsmit]

This is the kit that i have
http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/coopers-b ... r-kit.html
Please look at the 2mins 10secs on the video instructions.

I'm confused what to do now?
Do you think i should follow the instructions or do my own thing? Could they be using an austalian yeast that brews at higher temperatures due to their hotter summers?

 

[phillsmit]

Should i just aim for about 21 degrees?

 

[Runwell-Steve]

If you have the Coopers Australian Lager, then that does come with an ale yeast.

I would aim for about 21 degrees, it will be fine down to 18, or up to about 24, but I would try and stick within those temps. The most critical time is the first 2 - 3 days, after that the temperature will have less affect on the yeast as they have done most of their work after 3 days.

The Coopers European Lager comes with a lager yeast so that needs to be fermented much cooler, but I am assuming you don't have that one.

 

[phillsmit]

Thanks for all your help.

One last question then i'll get onto my first brew.
Our house changes temperature easily so i am planning to use a waterbath with a heater for my FV.

However the tap will be under water while its fermenting. Do i need to add any steraliser to the waterbath water or will it be ok?

I'll also have to move the FV before i use the tap to bottle the beer. Will it be ok to move the FV as long as i allow it to settle again before bottling?

Thanks for your help. :

 

[oldbloke]

Remember whatever you use for the waterbath needs to be robust enough to support a full fermenter - 22litres of beer is getting on for half a hundredweight.
The tap being submerged is a risk, but not a big one. It could do with some sort of sterilising before you let the ale out through it though.
I'd be tempted instead to wash the aquarium heater really well in a sterilising fluid, rinse it really thoroughly, and put it IN the fermenting bin. The cable may be able to squeeze out round the rim (maybe make a small notch), or if there's a hole for an airlock it might go through there.

 

[Hollow Legs]

Welcome Phillsmit,

I use an aquarium thermostat Aquael Thermostab TS - 500 http://www.kubazoo.com/en/aquael-thermostab-ts-53.html and a brew belt, put the brew belt around the FV and plug it into the thermostat, put the built in sensor on the outside of the FV covering the sensor with a bubble wrap pocket, set the desired temp between 17 - 36degC and it pretty much keeps it at that temperature, it cost me around the £20 mark plus the brew belt. I can run 20 brew belts of this if desired as it is rated at 500W and a brew belt is 25W, I usually run two or three belts at one time for different brews.
I find that I get consistent tasting brews as the temp is constant day and night.

As Runwell Steve says the Aussie lager comes with an ale yeast so would suite a temp of 20 - 23degC or lower if you can't get the higher temps, it will just take longer to ferment at a lower temp, this is not a bad thing just be aware that whatever you brew is not going to be ready in a couple of days no matter what it says in the instructions.

Good luck matey with whatever you decide to do, most of the suggestions are tried and tested and although different get the same results at the end of the day

 

[phillsmit]

Thanks everyone, i've got a cheap aquarium heater and have put it straight into the FV.

Will let you know how i get on.

 

[justink]

I am also a newbie brewer but even with my very limited experience so far I'd say the 'Brew Belt' I have is well worth the money especially as its been so cold the last few days.

I have it on a timer to roughly keep the temp consistent. I have it come on for 1.5h hour long stints followed by 2 hours off with some adjustment for when my central heating comes on and off. It was also really good for getting it up to temp at the start.

Obviously this was in conjunction with one of those stick on thermometers.....

 

[Hollow Legs]

I am also a newbie brewer but even with my very limited experience so far I'd say the 'Brew Belt' I have is well worth the money especially as its been so cold the last few days.

I have it on a timer to roughly keep the temp consistent. I have it come on for 1.5h hour long stints followed by 2 hours off with some adjustment for when my central heating comes on and off. It was also really good for getting it up to temp at the start.

Obviously this was in conjunction with one of those stick on thermometers.....

Beware Justink as the stick on thermometers are not very accurate, they are okay as a guide but don't rely on it if you need it to be precise.