Pre built pid temperature controller
- Thread starter Alside101
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Galena
Landlord.
Brilliant, thank you :)
Galena
Landlord.
Hi Chopps
I have my Inkbird and cables on the way now but have a couple of questions if I may?
Is the thermocouple a standard type? Is it possible to replace or get a spare?
I am curious about your kettle, is it a self build or did you have it made? I am looking for something like this and wondering
1) What size kettle is it?
2) What element and how do you control the temperature for the mash? By which I mean when the Inkbird switches the heat on, is it full power and does it risk scalding the wort?
3) I am assuming this is a one pot system, are you BIAB or do you chuck everything in?
4) Do you have a false bottom.
Sorry, so many questions but I am unsure of the best way to proceed with something like this at the moment.
Cheers
Thermocouple - It's an NTC probe and spares are available online, plugs in with a 3.5mm headphone jack.
I still have the original but I've seen them for sale and Inkbird sell them direct too.
The probe for the IPB-16S is different to the IPB-16 so if you do ever need one, take care with that.
Kettle - The kettle is from The Home Brew Shop and is their 56L Heavy Duty Reinforced.
I bought it undrilled and cut the holes myself using a cone bit and a Q Max punch. You can get them pre-drilled from suppliers if you prefer.
The element is a Dernord 240V 2500W Tri Clamp element. You will need a Tri-Clamp bulkhead or get one that fits just with a locknut and gasket. Your preference. AliExpress have a Dernord store, or other online vendors sell them (Ebay etc)
Control - The Inkbird PID deals with it. That is its purpose in life. You set a temperature target and it initially powers the element full until it nears the goal temperature, then moderates the power to avoid overshooting. You can also manually set % of power on the controller and take care of it yourself, if you'd rather only run at 75% for example. The element is a low watt density so there's more surface area to help with scorching. When I move from mash to boil, I don't set the target at 100C or whatever, I just stick it on % and set at max power.
Yes, one vessel. Mash, boil and cool in the same pot. Basket rather than bag, but same principle. Just add fermenter.
False bottom? That's a bit personal. No it's 100% real.
I did think of adding one, but have not needed to. The basket does a good job of keeping particles out of the wort and I use a hop spider during boil to contain them. On the occasions that I have just chucked the hops in loose, not had any issues. Could easily accommodate one if I needed. I also didn't add a bazooka filter and so far have not needed one. Again, easy to retro-fit.
Let me know if you need any more info.
Galena
Landlord.
Thank you for a comprehensive reply, very helpful and I think I will probably go for building something like yours.
Is THIS the element?
Interesting that the IPB 16S controls the power, I had assumed it was just an on or off thing like a normal thermostat.
Which basket do you have? I was looking at a custom build at Brewbuilder but a bit pricey.
Galena
Landlord.
That one, tri clamp 2.5KW.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07WPHDH8S?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
Aldo, a few posts in this thread that might help you.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/chopps-brewdays.92744/
Galena
Landlord.
@chopps A good price on the basket thanks, I did look at a custom built one from Brewbuilder but prices start at £175 so a bit of a non starter.
Do you by any chance have a link to the actual clamp, just want to be sure I get the right one and This one seems to be a bit of a mish-mash of metric and imperial?
Do you by any chance have a link to the actual clamp, just want to be sure I get the right one and This one seems to be a bit of a mish-mash of metric and imperial?
Just a technical point on something said above:
Controllers like the Inkbird, the STC1000 and similar low cost devices control temperature by switching the mains supply ON/OFF to the heater element. The term PID (Proportional Integral Differential) control refers to the algorithm which is used to control the temperature. Often these devices use an old fashioned relay (if you hear a quiet click when they switch) but more modern devices will use a semiconductor switch.
True power control of an AC heater elemnt can be done by using a semiconductor switch to allow a controllable proportion of the 50Hz sinewave to reach the heater element. So power at the heater element can be controlled from 0% to 100% or anywhere in between.
So what's the difference? - a PID controller with an ON/OFF switch will operate on the timescale set by the thermal lag between the heater and the sensor i.e. most likely several seconds at best. So a tightly wound heater element like a kettle element could get very hot within this short interval. True power control would be able to limit the peak power delivered to the element so preventing burst of over heating.
So it remains important to choose a heater element that is reasonably physically large to spread the heat. If a small kettle element is in use & burn on is occurring it would be possible to put a power controller in series with the output of the Inkbird to the heater element.
(NB. I dont' have an Inkbird to physically check, I use STC1000s. So if anyone has better information I will stand corrected. However I'm fairly certain what I've written is correct and certainly mains PID controllers for things like 3d printer beds work this way. My reading of the Inkbird specs lead me to think this is correct)
Controllers like the Inkbird, the STC1000 and similar low cost devices control temperature by switching the mains supply ON/OFF to the heater element. The term PID (Proportional Integral Differential) control refers to the algorithm which is used to control the temperature. Often these devices use an old fashioned relay (if you hear a quiet click when they switch) but more modern devices will use a semiconductor switch.
True power control of an AC heater elemnt can be done by using a semiconductor switch to allow a controllable proportion of the 50Hz sinewave to reach the heater element. So power at the heater element can be controlled from 0% to 100% or anywhere in between.
So what's the difference? - a PID controller with an ON/OFF switch will operate on the timescale set by the thermal lag between the heater and the sensor i.e. most likely several seconds at best. So a tightly wound heater element like a kettle element could get very hot within this short interval. True power control would be able to limit the peak power delivered to the element so preventing burst of over heating.
So it remains important to choose a heater element that is reasonably physically large to spread the heat. If a small kettle element is in use & burn on is occurring it would be possible to put a power controller in series with the output of the Inkbird to the heater element.
(NB. I dont' have an Inkbird to physically check, I use STC1000s. So if anyone has better information I will stand corrected. However I'm fairly certain what I've written is correct and certainly mains PID controllers for things like 3d printer beds work this way. My reading of the Inkbird specs lead me to think this is correct)
Good info @Bill_g . In case you’re interested, the IPB-16S has no electromechanical relay. The prior version used a Chinese SSR and the newer ‘S’ version an STmicro BTA40-800B.
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/stmicroelectronics/BTA40-800B/497-2405-5-ND/603430
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/stmicroelectronics/BTA40-800B/497-2405-5-ND/603430
Geordie_Paul
New Member
How are you finding the Dornord element? I've currently got a 4.5kw ripple element sitting in my basket on Aliexpress and looking for more reviews to convince me to purchase. :)
I also have the same 56ltr pot you have and been using Q-max punches to make the holes, I have another 50ltr that I'd also like to convert to all electric. The 56ltr is the one I wanted to put the element in, brewing 40 litre batches - how long is your 2.5kw taking to get to boil and does it get a decent rolling boil?
I have the 5500W still unused as I need to sort the electrics for it. The 2500W gives a gentle boil at 32L and i have had no trouble at all with the lid off. It’s not a raging boil by any means but good beer results all the same. If I loosely put the lid on with a good gap for steam esape the boil is very lively to the point that I need to drop the power to 70%. If boiling much more than 32L you might struggle at 2500W with the lid off. Never timed with a stopwatch but about 1hr from tap to mash and less than that from mash to boil.
Geordie_Paul
New Member
Yeah I was going to go for the 4500W as I didn't think I'd ever even require that but have noticed most have just gone straight for the 5500 but I guess it gives you that luxury of faster times and then massive scalability if very large batches are on the agenda.
Another question sorry, are you going to be running element off its own 40A supply, if so how are you wiring it? My garage is my brew room where the consumer unit is also located so shouldn't be too big of a job .. you wiring straight to your controller or attaching the twist lock fitting as seen in other tutorials?
I haven’t got a fully worked out plan for the big element. It would be on it’s own circuit and I’d have an electrician in. I may modify the Inkbird with an external SSR but probably would build a new one altogether. For twist-lock not sure what you mean? I had the MK Commando style connectors in mind as a means of disconnecting the element when required.
So far I’ve been fine with the 2500W boil, on the ring main, so unless I want to boil more than I can ferment at once (about 30L) there’s not a lot of point splashing out on the electrical work.
So far I’ve been fine with the 2500W boil, on the ring main, so unless I want to boil more than I can ferment at once (about 30L) there’s not a lot of point splashing out on the electrical work.
