red sea alkalinity test kit- HELP PLS

[steve963]

just bought this as didnt have and salfert kits,

its acid titration i believe

seems my water is so low in alkalinity, the solution dosent even go to the start colour, which is blue
as i add the solution it just gets redder

So I assume its below 1.9 meq/l or 5.3dkh, which is very soft i believe

going to check the PH of my mash next time

I make pale ales and bitters by the way, quite light in colour

Any one else had this problem or live in south cheshire and can tell me about my water?

 

[Vossy1]

Any one else had this problem or live in south cheshire and can tell me about my water?

Where are you Steve (I'm near Brooklands/Timperley), and the answer is yes.
Your water is probably the same as mine, comes from the lake district and is super soft.
Unlike most folk who have to reduce alkalinity we actually have to increase it :lol: ...always the way...typical

EDIT, our water is near perfect for stouts but can give rise to problems with fermentation due to the low mineral content. You will also find that by adding minerals the hop profile of your beer will get a lot better, see forum calculators top left

 

[steve963]

Any one else had this problem or live in south cheshire and can tell me about my water?

Where are you Steve (I'm near Brooklands/Timperley), and the answer is yes.
Your water is probably the same as mine, comes from the lake district and is super soft.
Unlike most folk who have to reduce alkalinity we actually have to increase it :lol: ...always the way...typical

EDIT, our water is near perfect for stouts but can give rise to problems with fermentation due to the low mineral content. You will also find that by adding minerals the hop profile of your beer will get a lot better, see forum calculators top left

im in sandbach near crewe, and not really into stouts, more pale ales, which this water isnt perfect for i guess!

ok will look at adding some hardness and some minerals

one more thing which measure of alkalinity does my kit give me, as there are 2 boxes in the calculator

 

[Vossy1]

Can you get a idea of the mineral content from your water supplier, is it United Utilities?

 

[steve963]

Can you get a idea of the mineral content from your water supplier, is it United Utilities?

yeah united utilities

 

[Vossy1]

Whack your postcode in here and click on submit then detailed water report rhs :thumb:

 

[steve963]

here it is, bit complex for me :wha: , any advice?


Parameter Min Average Max Units Regulatory Standard Number of samples % failed
2,4-D <0.0074 <0.0099 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 23 0.00
Aldrin <0.0010 <0.0019 <0.0020 µg/l 0.03 25 0.00
Aluminium 2.80 <7.05 30.1 µg Al/l 200 36 0.00
Ammonium (ammonia and ammonium ions) <0.0051 <0.0067 0.0077 mg NH4/l 0.5 35 0.00
Antimony <0.0300 <0.0500 0.0900 µg Sb/l 5 7 0.00
Arsenic 0.150 0.296 0.530 µg As/l 10 7 0.00
Benzene <0.0349 <0.0362 <0.100 µg/l 1 50 0.00
Benzo(a)pyrene <0.0020 <0.0020 0.0020 µg/l 0.01 8 0.00
Boron <0.0021 <0.0099 0.0229 mg B/l 1 54 0.00
Bromate <0.234 <0.441 <0.470 µg BrO3/l 10 8 0.00
Bromoxynil <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 2 0.00
Cadmium <0.0400 <0.0400 <0.0400 µg Cd/l 5 7 0.00
Calcium 9.70 15.8 33.1 mg Ca/l 36 0.00
Carbendazim <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 25 0.00
Carbetamide <0.0104 <0.0104 <0.0104 µg/l 0.1 22 0.00
Chloride 5.22 18.0 44.8 mg Cl/l 250 51 0.00
Chromium <0.180 <0.180 <0.180 µg Cr/l 50 7 0.00
Residual chlorine - Total 0.05 0.37 0.77 mg/l 86 0.00
Residual chlorine - Free 0.02 0.31 0.61 mg/l 86 0.00
Chlortoluron <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 25 0.00
Chlormequat <0.0040 <0.0064 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 25 0.00
Colony Counts after 2 days at 37 deg C 0 1 40 number/1ml 38 0.00
Colony counts after 3 days at 22 deg C 0 8 232 number/1ml 38 0.00
Coliform bacteria 0 0 0 number/100ml 0 85 0.00
Colour <0.390 <0.839 1.81 mg/l Pt/Co scale 20 38 0.00
Conductivity 91.0 120 197 uS/cm at 20oC 2500 20 0.00
Copper 0.0025 0.0115 0.0387 mg Cu/l 2 8 0.00
Clostridium perfringens (including spores) 0 0 0 number/100ml 0 37 0.00
Clopyralid <0.0100 <0.0145 <0.0147 µg/l 0.1 24 0.00
Cyanide <0.698 <0.981 <1.17 µg CN/l 50 51 0.00
Cyanazine <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 3 0.00
1,2-dichloroethane <0.103 <0.103 <0.103 µg/l 3 50 0.00
Dieldrin <0.0030 <0.0030 <0.0030 µg/l 0.03 2 0.00
Dichlorprop <0.0081 <0.0098 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 23 0.00
Diuron <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 25 0.00
E.coli 0 0 0 number/100ml 0 85 0.00
Enterococci 0 0 0 number/100ml 0 9 0.00
Fluoride 0.0200 0.0729 0.110 mg F/l 1.5 7 0.00
Fluroxypyr <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 4 0.00
Glyphosate <0.0010 <0.0078 0.0109 µg/l 0.1 26 0.00
Total hardness 12 19 41 mg Ca/l 36 0.00
Heptachlor epoxide <0.0020 <0.0020 <0.0020 µg/l 0.03 2 0.00
Heptachlor <0.0010 <0.0010 <0.0010 µg/l 0.03 2 0.00
Iron 6.00 28.0 189 µg Fe/l 200 36 0.00
Isoproturon <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 25 0.00
Lead <0.250 <0.720 1.82 µg Pb/l 25 8 0.00
Linuron <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 22 0.00
Magnesium 1.30 1.98 5.00 mg Mg/l 36 0.00
Manganese 0.300 1.41 15.8 µg Mn/l 50 36 0.00
MCPA <0.0076 <0.0099 0.0100 µg/l 0.1 23 0.00
MCPB <0.0121 <0.0121 <0.0121 µg/l 0.1 4 0.00
Mecoprop <0.0067 <0.0099 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 25 0.00
Mercury <0.0100 <0.0142 0.0400 µg Hg/l 1 51 0.00
Metaldehyde <0.0030 <0.0080 0.0310 µg/l 0.1 25 0.00
Nickel <0.500 <0.613 0.900 µg Ni/l 20 8 0.00
Nitrite <0.0056 <0.0079 <0.0095 mg NO2/l 0.5 35 0.00
Nitrate <0.443 <4.48 18.6 mg NO3/l 50 35 0.00
(Nitrate)/50 plus (nitrite)/3 0.0070 0.0893 0.374 mg/l 1 35 0.00
Odour (quantitative) 0 0 0 dilution number at 25oC 0 19 0.00
Total organic carbon 0.550 1.27 1.90 mg C/l 53 0.00
Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (sum of 4 PAHs) 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 µg/l 0.1 7 0.00
Pesticides - Total 0.0000 0.0016 0.0310 µg/l 0.5 122 0.00
Hydrogen ion (pH) 7.01 7.40 8.25 pH value 9.5 74 0.00
Radioactivity gross alpha <0.0120 <0.0194 0.0370 Bq/l 0.1 52 0.00
Radioactivity gross beta 0.0250 0.168 0.248 Bq/l 1 52 0.00
Selenium <0.210 <0.251 0.390 µg Se/l 10 7 0.00
Sodium 6.10 7.55 10.0 mg Na/l 200 36 0.00
Sulphate 1.64 30.3 67.1 mg SO4/l 250 53 0.00
Taste (quantitative) 0 0 0 dilution number at 25oC 0 19 0.00
Tetrachloromethane <0.0353 <0.0477 <0.0601 µg/l 3 8 0.00
Trihalomethanes - Total 23.0 33.0 41.4 µg/l 100 8 0.00
Triclopyr <0.0100 <0.0100 <0.0100 µg/l 0.1 2 0.00
Tritium <5.00 <5.00 <5.00 Bq/l 100 5 0.00
Tetrachloroethene and trichloroethene 0.0000 0.0143 0.114 µg/l 10 8 0.00
Turbidity <0.09 <0.14 0.51 NTU 4 38 0.00

 

[Vossy1]

For brewing your only really interested in Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, Sulphate, Cl, and the alkalinity. TBH the figures you have for min and max vary wildly, much more so than mine. I tend to work around the average figures, you can guess when the figures are likely to deviate but that's all it is, a guess.

So you have Ca = 15.8, Mg = 1.98, Na = 7.55, S04 = 30.3, Cl = 0.31 or 0.37 whichever.

Those are the figure you need to plug into the calculator. Will get back in a bit regards alkalinity :thumb:

 

[shocker]

Typical bloody feast or famine situation : you get snowed under with reams of info most of which is useless , we (in SW Water country) get sod all , since they poisoned a load of people tipping god knows what into the water (my sister included) :?

...at a guess , you would want to be looking at, on that list , calcium , chloride, and (which I dont see listed) potassium...but chemistry is not my strong suit , Im more a physics type, sorry !

 

[steve963]

dosent seem to matter which box i put the alkalinity in same results (bottom 2 boxes)

Here is my pale ale results, using the averages, where do you get the chemicals and salts from?

CRS: 0 millilitres Carbonate Reducing Solution - add this to the total water volume!

Gypsum added to mash: 15.68 grams Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate) (Ca SO4 2H2O)
Chalk added to mash: 0.3 grams Chalk (Calcium Carbonate) (Ca CO3)

Gypsum added to boiler: 31.83 grams Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate) (Ca SO4 2H2O)
Table Salt added to boiler: 4.67 grams Table Salt (Na Cl)
Epsom Salts added to boiler: 18.27 grams Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate) (Mg SO4 7H2O)
Calcium Chloride added to boiler: 0 grams Calcium Chloride (Dihydrate) (Ca Cl2 2H2O)

EDIT: this is for 100L total liquor for 69L brew length

 

[shocker]

An ounce and a half of Gypsum ! That DOES sound like a lot , mate .Vossy , whats it like by you ?

 

[Mark1964]

you need to measure the alkilinity in the CaC03 box i think

 

[steve963]

I just put 10 in for alkalinity as cant tell as the solution dosent go blue (see my first post)

EDIT: note by total water is 100l for a brew length of 69L, with 33.2L in mash

 

[Mark1964]

Ah i see the salifert kit we used made you add the chemical drop by drop till it turned pink then you matched the colour with the appropriate reading ours is 274.5

 

[steve963]

this kit has a start colour and and finished colour and its the number of ml needed to make the change

but my water wont make it even turn to the start colour

It came with some alkalinity increase solution so i added a drip and it went to start colour straight away

maybe i bought the wrong test kit

 

[Vossy1]

I don't use mash and liquor additions. I work out what volume of water I need then treat it as a whole. The only lone addition is the CaC03 which should only be added to the mash as it will correct the PH.
My water is very very soft, it's virtually a blank template

where do you get the chemicals and salts from?

I tend to get the from e-bay, though I've had some from barley Bottom in the past.

 

[steve963]

I don't use mash and liquor additions. I work out what volume of water I need then treat it as a whole. The only lone addition is the CaC03 which should only be added to the mash as it will correct the PH.
My water is very very soft, it's virtually a blank template

where do you get the chemicals and salts from?

I tend to get the from e-bay, though I've had some from barley Bottom in the past.

ok think ill give it a go with the results i got, as putting my alkalinity of 10 - 30 makes little difference on the results, and it must be real low given the kit results

up to all grain 11 now and had mixed results, with vinegar infection, wild yeast infection, fermenting too hot, forgetting irish moss and getting cloudy beer, maybe even tannin extraction from sparging too long, think its all comming together now (hopefully!)

 

[Mark1964]

we treat all our water with crs first

 

[Vossy1]

Figures, three or four times a year I look at the salt figures for the water in my area and choose to use the average for the basis of my salt additions. The last figures I used from March this year for a dry pale ale were my water Ca 7.92mg/ltr, Mg 1.05, S04 10.1, Cl 6.47, Na 5.17

additions required to take it up to a dry pale ale water profile

CaS04 0.47g/ltr so 47g/100ltr
CaCl2 0.25g/ltr so 25g/100ltr
MgS04 0.14g/1ltr so 14g/100ltr
NaCl 0.06g/ltr so 6g/l00ltr
CaC03 0.01g/ltr so whatever the mash was vol x 0.01

So to answer, I need a lot of salts with my water. Don't get hung up on profiles for beers, as long as you have a water with a reasonable amount of salts you won't go far wrong.

 

[steve963]

Figures, three or four times a year I look at the salt figures for the water in my area and choose to use the average for the basis of my salt additions. The last figures I used from March this year for a dry pale ale were my water Ca 7.92mg/ltr, Mg 1.05, S04 10.1, Cl 6.47, Na 5.17

additions required to take it up to a dry pale ale water profile

CaS04 0.47g/ltr so 47g/100ltr
CaCl2 0.25g/ltr so 25g/100ltr
MgS04 0.14g/1ltr so 14g/100ltr
NaCl 0.06g/ltr so 6g/l00ltr
CaC03 0.01g/ltr so whatever the mash was vol x 0.01

So to answer, I need a lot of salts with my water. Don't get hung up on profiles for beers, as long as you have a water with a reasonable amount of salts you won't go far wrong.

looks similar to what i got apart from the 25g of CaCl2, so gonna give it a go :thumb:

will get back to you all next year with the results