Unpredictable efficiency on all-in-one system

[Cheyne_brewer]

It's an interesting read this, I currently have a 35 litre brewzilla on order. Main reason was I was worried about customer service from hopcat.

However now I'm thinking 45l will give me more capacity for larger grain bills.

Im looking at 23l batches

Do I stick or twist?

The 45l Hopcat is a good machine, grain capacity is good and actually Hopcat support is better than the detractors make out. I had an issue with mine, contacted James Isgoed Williams (Mr. Hopcat himself) on Facebook and all was sorted speedily.

 

[Doublediamond]

Do you fellas who are using 3lt per Kg strike water, also add an extra 3-4tl for the dead space?
That what I use and Brewfather figures are pretty much the same.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@Doublediamond
I'm a bit over 3l / kg as mentioned in my post above. I didn't use brewfather figures just worked on trial and error. I do use even more if lots of flaked ingredients.

 

[phillc]

Are you stirring the grains a few times through the mash ?

Try this first.

I also have a Brauheld Pro. While I don't have the depth of calculations you do, I did have a frustrating brew where around 6kg of grain resulted in very low efficiency.

I tried the same brew a second time, and this time stirred the mash multiple times, usually at the beginning of each mash step (temperature change) and right before the sparge too. Ended up stirring about five times.

This resulted in a much higher initial gravity of the final brew.

I was brewing a wheat beer and thought the problem first time around was due to the wheat malt, because the sparge was also very, very slow, almost stuck. Now I think the Brauheld just doesn't deal with big grain bills very well. I have the 35 litre version and reckon about a 5kg grain bill is the sweet spot.

 

[dannythemanny]

Try this first.

I also have a Brauheld Pro. While I don't have the depth of calculations you do, I did have a frustrating brew where around 6kg of grain resulted in very low efficiency.

I tried the same brew a second time, and this time stirred the mash multiple times, usually at the beginning of each mash step (temperature change) and right before the sparge too. Ended up stirring about five times.

This resulted in a much higher initial gravity of the final brew.

I was brewing a wheat beer and thought the problem first time around was due to the wheat malt, because the sparge was also very, very slow, almost stuck. Now I think the Brauheld just doesn't deal with big grain bills very well. I have the 35 litre version and reckon about a 5kg grain bill is the sweet spot.

I will certainly give this a try. I heat my sparge water in another Klarstein vessel (I forget the name, but it's about 25 L capacity, I think, and it came with a false bottom). I reckon for larger grain bills, like 6kg, I will throw a couple of kgs in the HLT to mash at the same time as the main mash, drain it into the kettle, then keep the grains in there while I heat the sparge water, give it a good mix and then sparge the main mash with what is effectively the second runnings from the HLT "mini mash". I'm really keen to give this a go and take refractometer readings at each stage.

I'll be pleased if it works, because it may take a little longer (especially if I have to hear sparge water from cold) and may require a bit more scrubbing of the HLT, but it won't require a whole extra mash as with reiterated mashing.

 

[foxy]

I will certainly give this a try. I heat my sparge water in another Klarstein vessel (I forget the name, but it's about 25 L capacity, I think, and it came with a false bottom). I reckon for larger grain bills, like 6kg, I will throw a couple of kgs in the HLT to mash at the same time as the main mash, drain it into the kettle, then keep the grains in there while I heat the sparge water, give it a good mix and then sparge the main mash with what is effectively the second runnings from the HLT "mini mash". I'm really keen to give this a go and take refractometer readings at each stage.

I'll be pleased if it works, because it may take a little longer (especially if I have to hear sparge water from cold) and may require a bit more scrubbing of the HLT, but it won't require a whole extra mash as with reiterated mashing.

I stir mine every 15 minutes during mash it helps to keep a constant temperature. You will know when to stop when the starch has converted you can feel it in the weight. Don't do it to long you want all the little bits to settle on top of the grain bed.

 

[dannythemanny]

I stir mine every 15 minutes during mash it helps to keep a constant temperature. You will know when to stop when the starch has converted you can feel it in the weight. Don't do it to long you want all the little bits to settle on top of the grain bed.

One thing I would be concerned about with stirring is that the wort is amazingly crystal clear after forty minutes or so without stirring. I would think frequent stirring would cloud it up again, but maybe not? And whether this cloudiness would have any impact on the finished beer, I've no idea. I read a Brulosophy that found a load of trub in the FV clears and maybe matures the beer quicker, so who knows?!

 

[foxy]

One thing I would be concerned about with stirring is that the wort is amazingly crystal clear after forty minutes or so without stirring. I would think frequent stirring would cloud it up again, but maybe not? And whether this cloudiness would have any impact on the finished beer, I've no idea. I read a Brulosophy that found a load of trub in the FV clears and maybe matures the beer quicker, so who knows?!

Forget about Brulosophy, he is a Psychologist. The more hits on his posts the more money he makes. That is why most of his posts are contrary to common belief. All his tasters are cardboard cut outs. Follow the science not what he puts up.

 

[dannythemanny]

Forget about Brulosophy, he is a Psychologist. The more hits on his posts the more money he makes. That is why most of his posts are contrary to common belief. All his tasters are cardboard cut outs. Follow the science not what he puts up.

I didn't know that. I must say, though, Brulosophy aside, I think there are a lot of homebrewing conventions that are questionable. For instance, it have never found any use for hop additions between sixty minutes and the last few minutes. I've found that adding hops at 30, 20 and even 10 minutes is basically evaporating money into thin air! Happy to accept that maybe my palate isn't refined enough, though!

 

[Wynne]

I didn't know that. I must say, though, Brulosophy aside, I think there are a lot of homebrewing conventions that are questionable. For instance, it have never found any use for hop additions between sixty minutes and the last few minutes. I've found that adding hops at 30, 20 and even 10 minutes is basically evaporating money into thin air! Happy to accept that maybe my palate isn't refined enough, though!

I agree @dannythemanny, generally, I add bittering hops at the start of the boil then flavour hops via a 30min hop steep at ~75C. I’m starting to experiment using a Hop Rocket as a hop-back immediately before my cooler, to save the time required for wort cooling and steeping.