Victorian/ ole English bitter

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Cwrw666

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Does anybody have a all grain recipe for a victorian/old English bitter?. A few years ago I did the muntons old english kit and after leaving it in bottles for four months was very nice but I would like to now do a all grain or extract equivalent of this beer. I would be making 23 litres.
I'd suggest you try a Victorian pale ale. Very simple recipe but makes modern pale ales taste rather insipid in comparison.
I've made a lot of these and you can vary the ABV simply by varying the amount of pale ale.

1864 Lovibond XB (from Ron Pattinson's `the homebrewers guide to vintage beer')

5.6Kg pale malt
57g goldings (90m)
57g goldings (60m)
57g goldings (30m)

mash at 65c
yeast - I use gervin ale yeast

I made this one initially because it's one of the least bitter recipes in the book but it still knocks your socks off! Lovely floral aroma from the hops. I usually use a lot less pale malt to get the ABV down to sensible levels.
 

An Ankoù

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I'd suggest you try a Victorian pale ale. Very simple recipe but makes modern pale ales taste rather insipid in comparison.
I've made a lot of these and you can vary the ABV simply by varying the amount of pale ale.

1864 Lovibond XB (from Ron Pattinson's `the homebrewers guide to vintage beer')

5.6Kg pale malt
57g goldings (90m)
57g goldings (60m)
57g goldings (30m)

mash at 65c
yeast - I use gervin ale yeast

I made this one initially because it's one of the least bitter recipes in the book but it still knocks your socks off! Lovely floral aroma from the hops. I usually use a lot less pale malt to get the ABV down to sensible levels.
Almost exactly the same as the one I posted above except using Goldings instead of fuggles, Yes, the OG's going to be in the 60s with that pile of malt. I imagine the malt 100+ years ago didn't give such a good extraction yields as today's. Hence the amount used.
 

jjsh

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I'd suggest you try a Victorian pale ale. Very simple recipe but makes modern pale ales taste rather insipid in comparison.
I've made a lot of these and you can vary the ABV simply by varying the amount of pale ale.

1864 Lovibond XB (from Ron Pattinson's `the homebrewers guide to vintage beer')

5.6Kg pale malt
57g goldings (90m)
57g goldings (60m)
57g goldings (30m)

mash at 65c
yeast - I use gervin ale yeast

I made this one initially because it's one of the least bitter recipes in the book but it still knocks your socks off! Lovely floral aroma from the hops. I usually use a lot less pale malt to get the ABV down to sensible levels.
I've brewed this before from Ron's book, and it's a cracking pint. Even though there are absolutely no late additions, it seemed nice and juicy. Must brew it again very soon.
 

An Ankoù

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I've brewed this before from Ron's book, and it's a cracking pint. Even though there are absolutely no late additions, it seemed nice and juicy. Must brew it again very soon.
Two great recommendations for this beer so far. I'll brew one up myself. Hadn't heard of the book you mention although I've got Pattinson's *Let's Brew. Is it worth getting the earlier book or does "Let's Brew" cover the field?
 

An Ankoù

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Probably not, as Let's Brew has far more recipes in it. I've got both, but I like books for their own sake, if you see what I mean.
I do see what you mean, which is why I have such a large collection. I couldn't find the 1864 recipe, though, with a quick look. I'll give it a good going through this evening. The earlier book now costs an arm and a leg for some reason.
 

jjsh

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I do see what you mean, which is why I have such a large collection. I couldn't find the 1864 recipe, though, with a quick look. I'll give it a good going through this evening. The earlier book now costs an arm and a leg for some reason.
Sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking. All the recipes in the two books are different, but Let's Brew is so comprehensive that if you already have it, there is bound to be a similar recipe for the same style and period, if you see what I mean.
 

Glyn1

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all recipes to brew 23 litres of this ale would be really appreciated
Thanks
 

Cwrw666

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I imagine the malt 100+ years ago didn't give such a good extraction yields as today's. Hence the amount used.
Err, the recipes in the book are for using modern ingredients. I do think he gives excessive amounts of PM though, I certainly use a lot less.
 

peebee

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That's a bit pricey!
'Tis isn't it. I think it is going through a "rare" period that's upped the price. Temporarily?


I brew the Durden Park Beer Club's published recipe for Usher's 60/- Pale Ale using Chevallier barley malt for "authenticity" (Maris Otter barley for malt wasn't around until late 1960s and also used Goldings 'cos Fuggles wasn't around until 1875 and today's "Goldings" are a mish-mash of the earlier available varieties). But at 1.060 way too strong. "Bitter" is really a 20th century variety of "Pale Ale" hence no Victorian recipes. And was a "running beer", one made weak and drunk young, which in earlier times might have been enhanced by blending with older, stronger ale (e.g. "stock" ales). Beers really were brewed stronger in Victorian times as they kept better; the old malts were quite capable of converting to near current levels of sugars, but the enzymes might not have been so rich so malt needed mashing longer (I give malt from Chevallier barley at least 90 minutes as 60 will not do). Many Victorian pale ales (and table beers) may have been served bottled and sparkling. Bitters were more likely sold as draught (but not exclusively!) but didn't really compete with "mild" until well after WWII. Anyway, enough of my version of "history"...

For "old" bitter recipes you are definitely better off hunting through @EddtheBrew's work (doesn't seem to have posted for a while on this forum?). Lot's of examples from 1950-60s. You can dig about in the Victorian "Table Beers" and the like but many were second run-offs from "normal" strength beers which makes them more complicated.
 

An Ankoù

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'Tis isn't it. I think it is going through a "rare" period that's upped the price. Temporarily?


I brew the Durden Park Beer Club's published recipe for Usher's 60/- Pale Ale using Chevallier barley malt for "authenticity" (Maris Otter barley for malt wasn't around until late 1960s and also used Goldings 'cos Fuggles wasn't around until 1875 and today's "Goldings" are a mish-mash of the earlier available varieties). But at 1.060 way too strong. "Bitter" is really a 20th century variety of "Pale Ale" hence no Victorian recipes. And was a "running beer", one made weak and drunk young, which in earlier times might have been enhanced by blending with older, stronger ale (e.g. "stock" ales). Beers really were brewed stronger in Victorian times as they kept better; the old malts were quite capable of converting to near current levels of sugars, but the enzymes might not have been so rich so malt needed mashing longer (I give malt from Chevallier barley at least 90 minutes as 60 will not do). Many Victorian pale ales (and table beers) may have been served bottled and sparkling. Bitters were more likely sold as draught (but not exclusively!) but didn't really compete with "mild" until well after WWII. Anyway, enough of my version of "history"...

For "old" bitter recipes you are definitely better off hunting through @EddtheBrew's work (doesn't seem to have posted for a while on this forum?). Lot's of examples from 1950-60s. You can dig about in the Victorian "Table Beers" and the like but many were second run-offs from "normal" strength beers which makes them more complicated.
Durden Park recipes are great. Haven't made a bad one yet. BUT even the weaker ones require the full maturation period before they taste good. Just bought nearly a kilo each of fuggles and goldings as I want to knock up a load more of them.
Thoroughly enjoyed your version of history, by the way.
Where can Edd the Brew's stuff be found?
 

jjsh

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Here is Edd site. I really like the way he has detailed recipes and makes a decent attempt to match old malts by specifying a mix of currently available stuff. He does quote ingredients as % of grain bill, and hops as IBU's so you need to get your head around that but it's fascinating stuff. He's presently compiling his first book, which I am eagerly awaiting.
 

peebee

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Here is Edd site. I really like the way he has detailed recipes and makes a decent attempt to match old malts by specifying a mix of currently available stuff. He does quote ingredients as % of grain bill, and hops as IBU's so you need to get your head around that but it's fascinating stuff. He's presently compiling his first book, which I am eagerly awaiting.
Cracking! So he hasn't slowed down, just moved on to new pastures. Here's his original posts on this site: https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/old-beers-and-brewing.75551/

(EDIT: Edd's Web site https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/?m=0, @jjsh posted the "mobile" site which is a bit harder to navigate for us fuddy-duddies).
 
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GerritT

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That's a bit pricey!
Yes, Pattinson can be found online, but experience tells me that once appreciated it's something to be bought. Or got for birth/father/christmas/whatever days. Or spoil yourself.
 

Cwrw666

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Maybe so, but the copy I bought (new, a year or so ago) has a cover price of £17.99 and I got it much less than that cos even that's a bit pricey. BTW I got it then because someone on here recommended it.
 

An Ankoù

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Maybe so, but the copy I bought (new, a year or so ago) has a cover price of £17.99 and I got it much less than that cos even that's a bit pricey. BTW I got it then because someone on here recommended it.
It's £27.50, now, on Amazon, for a "spiral bound" copy! What does that mean? Its a photocopy of the proper book, spiral bound?
If anyone want to see the full work as an ebook, go to PDFDRIVE. The pagination doesn't work, but it's readable.
 
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