Why sparge?

[thehorse]

Please excuse a daft question, but this has been bugging me.

I've made a few brews using extract and steped grains.

Why is it that were I to scale up to full-grain I would have to sparge?

I know what it entails - and that I'd need a mash tun with a tap - but why can't you just steep the base malt. And if that's not concentrated enough, steep some more in the resultant wort, then add your speciality grains?

 

[Robin54]

An interesting question... which will no doubt
get some interesting answers

 

[Notlaw]

You don't have to, you could just use more fermentables. It's to extract as much of the fermentable sugars from the grain as possible and get decent efficiency as far as I believe. Some of the more experienced and well read guys will probably explain in more in depth terms.

 

[BigDave345]

Please excuse a daft question, but this has been bugging me.

I've made a few brews using extract and steped grains.

Why is it that were I to scale up to full-grain I would have to sparge?

I know what it entails - and that I'd need a mash tun with a tap - but why can't you just steep the base malt. And if that's not concentrated enough, steep some more in the resultant wort, then add your speciality grains?

Hi steeping Base Malts as you well no gives us sugars from the grain, Sparging rinses all the sugars left trapped within the grains Thus needing less grain !

 

[dan125]

I know what it entails - and that I'd need a mash tun with a tap - but why can't you just steep the base malt. And if that's not concentrated enough, steep some more in the resultant wort, then add your speciality grains?

No need to sparge, and many BIAB brewers don't, but you can't just steep more grains in the resultant wort without getting it back to mashing temp.
You'd also need to have a good idea of what your pre-boil gravity should be, as the wort naturally concentrates during the boil

Whether you sparge or not, within a few brews you'll get an idea of the efficiency you're achieving and be able to adjust your recipe accordingly.

:

 

[brumbrew]

It's my understanding that a lot of the other fermentables and some 'body' gets chemically attatched to the husks of the malted grains.

This is why brewers rinse or 'sparge' I like to do first and maybe seccond runnings to if you want a big beer.

That's my opinion based on my own findings. And some reading.

 

[mike-os]

the reason for limiting the strike water volume ( water added to the grain at the start of the mash) is to provide sufficient water to swell the grain and keep the enzymes required for starch conversion as concentrated as practical for maximum efficiency. diluting these through adding all the water in 1 go theoretically reduces enzyme efficiency resulting in a lower conversion rate.....This results in a wort high in sugar, my first runnings are typically over 1.100, and basically has as much sugars as it can carry.

At this point you could all all your sparge water if your vessel was large enough and then run off the whole volume of wort in one go to rinse all the sugars you have spent the last hour or so creating

as most of us use relatively small mash tuns we usually cant do this so we have to either batch or fly sparge and remove wort as required

the general idea is to be as efficient as reasonably possible on your grain usage, using more grain after mashing means another hours delay while you mash more grain. most recipes on here (and in greg hughes)seem fairly conservative on grain and so you should achieve targets without too much difficulty.

ps speciality grains go in the mash tun with the base malts :thumb:

 

[Niman]

FWIW with the price of grain compared to "our time" good question

i used to to the whole fly sparging thing...which was boring and time consuming..and had done so from the start of my AG brewing....I then bought an ag kit and it suggested batch sparging....realised for my set up it was quicker and as/more effective.

went back to fly sparging.....used both the tin foil and a rotating sparge arm.....meh lots of yawns....

last big bit of kit i bought was an 80ltr thermo pot , false bottom and bottom drain kit....yes it was costly.

But on the plus side i typically add 50-60 litres to it then grain..........so a pretty full tun..

mash on i boil about 20 litres to add some at end of mash...(not all) rest is used if required (pluss addition of cooled water if required)

im typically several points over at end of boil.....but now happy to liquor back at copper stage.....saves cooling time 2.


meh not exactly repeatable brew on brew but hey i never brewed the same beer twice yet.

 

[Robin54]

An interesting question... which will no doubt
get some interesting answers

there you go..interesting answers
so what is the answer, cos I sure don't know:-o

 

[Niman]

there you go..interesting answers
so what is the answer, cos I sure don't know:-o

do what works for ya prob best answer..

 

[Covrich]

I do it both ways

23L batches True BIAB full volume no sparge just mash then mash out I get 70-75% efficiency

smaller batches up to 10L I use a smaller 15l pot and do a sparge get late 70s early 80s efficiency.

I could add a sparge to my true BIAB but I dont think I need too, infact I am sure I can up the efficiency if I want too without it.. the trade off is a much simpler brew day , after mash I just fire up the burner with grains in.. when at 75 I flame out stir and rest.. remove then proceed.

I don't think they are better or worse with our without it.. Just do what works for your setup

 

[simon12]

examples are for 25L pre boil batches 5Kg grain ish
With no sparge you mash in say 15L water then remove the grain which has 5L or 1/3rd of the sugar you made then top up to the required volume with water loosing 1/3rd of what you made.
Full volume mash you mash with 30 water remove the grain with 5L of wort loosing 1/6th of what you made.
These are both no sparge and as you can see they loose alot of efficiency.
2 step batch sparge you mash in 15L water drain 10L then add 7.5L to the remaining 1/3rd full strength wort in the grain drain it leaving 1/14th of the total sugars in the grain top up 7.5l again then drain and you through away only 1/42th of the sugar in the used grain.
This is simplistic but I hope it demonstrates why people sparge.

 

[Fil]

#1 reason is because it helps maximise BHE the warmer sparge liquor rinses off sugars from the grain mass. so you get the most from the grain.

full volume mashing and recirculating the liquor generally with a 2 pot system can be just as efficient if not slightly more so but is a more complex system to knock up and manage.

 

[JabeerIni]

As almost everybody has commented, it helps to improve the efficiency of your wort.
Moreover, (if I can add something I haven't read within the comments) it's important that you sparge correctly.
Once I sparged without being patient enough (basically just poured a litre of boiling water on my grains after the mash was over and didn't wait for it to drain properly) and my beer was almost 2 points below the targeted ABV...
After that, now not only I systematically sparge but also take all the time in the world to sparge properly. It really pays back.
Cheers!

 

[Copperbrew]

The sparge process is great for getting more sugars out of the mash. I typically mash for an hour, drain to the pan and then do an immersion sparge at 77 degrees for a mash out for 30 minutes. Its great for efficiency and saves on using malt extract. The fly sparge is fiddly and i'm not sure that it's more efficient in my setup than an immersion sparge.

 

[Spoon]

I compromise on the fly sparging:
Vorlauf
Drain so the liquid is just level with the grain bed (so I'm not diluting sugary water in the next step)
Add the full volume of water onto the tinfoil so it doesn't disturb the grain.
Then drain slowly until the gravity drops too low or the pre boil volume is reached.

It's pretty much fly sparging but without having to be arround, I just leave it to drain slowly and go weigh out hops or clean FV's or something.

The sparge process is great for getting more sugars out of the mash. I typically mash for an hour, drain to the pan and then do an immersion sparge at 77 degrees for a mash out for 30 minutes. Its great for efficiency and saves on using malt extract. The fly sparge is fiddly and i'm not sure that it's more efficient in my setup than an immersion sparge.

Does that to carry over proteins into the boil? I thought part of the point of the mash out was that it filtered the proteins out in the vorlauf?

 

[brumbrew]

I tend to drain off most of the wort and slowly/gently pour it back into the mash. Is this vorlauf?

I just know it as first runnings.

Edit - along with some water afterwards to reach boil volume.

 

[Fil]

Aye Jugging back = vourlaf

everything ive read suggests a few jugfulls till the wort runs clear, HA! i have juged back twice the volume with some brews and its still not been a clear run off the brews have all turned out fine tho