Youngs Lager Yeast

[Tetsuo1981]

@MyQul I had to go to night school after failing my gcse and still only got an 'E' after that.

Well that's my bedtime reading sorted for tonight, looking up that calculator and a few others then wait for the postman to bring me my goodies

 

[terrym]

If its any help some people have managed to brew the Coopers Euro lager at 12/13*C with only one 7g packet of kit yeast. I didn't manage that which is why a doubled up, although some of that yeast was ale yeast which would have become dormant at the low temperature as @MyQul has said.
More on the Euro lager here
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/coopers-european-lager-review.17845/

 

[MyQul]

@MyQul I had to go to night school after failing my gcse and still only got an 'E' after that.

Well that's my bedtime reading sorted for tonight, looking up that calculator and a few others then wait for the postman to bring me my goodies

And I thought I was bad at maths

If you want to learn all about yeast
Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation (Brewing Elements)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yeast-Practical-Fermentation-Brewing-Elements/dp/0937381969
Is the goto book

 

[Tetsuo1981]

If its any help some people have managed to brew the Coopers Euro lager at 12/13*C with only one 7g packet of kit yeast. I didn't manage that which is why a doubled up, although some of that yeast was ale yeast which would have become dormant at the low temperature as @MyQul has said.
More on the Euro lager here
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/coopers-european-lager-review.17845/

I'll add that to my bedtime reading, thank you for that. Leaning more towards using a starter as I want to avoid as much ale-ness as possible

 

[Tetsuo1981]

And I thought I was bad at maths

If you want to learn all about yeast
Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation (Brewing Elements)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yeast-Practical-Fermentation-Brewing-Elements/dp/0937381969
Is the goto book

I'll add that to my amazon wish list, and to my bedtime reading

 

[MyQul]

I'll add that to my bedtime reading, thank you for that. Leaning more towards using a starter as I want to avoid as much ale-ness as possible

tbh, the colder the better is what does it. The cool temps inhibit esters. Basically esters are what give ales they're ale-ness. As mentioned in winter I use temp tolerant ale yeasts at cool temps and they result is very lager like. You can also ferment lager yeast at ale temps. I've never done this myself though

 

[Tetsuo1981]

tbh, the colder the better is what does it. The cool temps inhibit esters. Basically esters are what give ales they're ale-ness. As mentioned in winter I use temp tolerant ale yeasts at cool temps and they result is very lager like. You can also ferment lager yeast at ale temps. I've never done this myself though

Ah I think I get it a bit more now. I'll stick with the lower temp for lager type beers. I'm really looki g forward to getting this one on the go

 

[Northern_Brewer]

tbh, the colder the better is what does it. The cool temps inhibit esters.

A steady temperature is at least as important as cold - you'll probably get a cleaner result from a steady 14°C than cycling between 6°C and 12°C. The first 2-3 days of fermentation are particularly important.

If you look at the warm-fermented lager thread on HBT you'll see that people have been pretty happy with the results of making lager at up to 18°C with the right yeast - Mangrove Jack M54 Californian seems to be favourite, but the likes of 34/70, S-189 and WLP800 all seem to work quite well.

 

[Tetsuo1981]

A steady temperature is at least as important as cold - you'll probably get a cleaner result from a steady 14°C than cycling between 6°C and 12°C. The first 2-3 days of fermentation are particularly important.

If you look at the warm-fermented lager thread on HBT you'll see that people have been pretty happy with the results of making lager at up to 18°C with the right yeast - Mangrove Jack M54 Californian seems to be favourite, but the likes of 34/70, S-189 and WLP800 all seem to work quite well.

Cheers for that. Was aiming for a steady temp with my inkbird so hopefully my fridge will hold out. I'll look into the yeast you've mentioned, I wanted to get some decent yeast for this kit but my usual homebrew place had been pretty much picked clean. Chose the wrong time to get back into brewing!!

 

[MyQul]

A steady temperature is at least as important as cold - you'll probably get a cleaner result from a steady 14°C than cycling between 6°C and 12°C. The first 2-3 days of fermentation are particularly important.

If you look at the warm-fermented lager thread on HBT you'll see that people have been pretty happy with the results of making lager at up to 18°C with the right yeast - Mangrove Jack M54 Californian seems to be favourite, but the likes of 34/70, S-189 and WLP800 all seem to work quite well.

Absolutely. Ive read a few posts from newbie forumites who have fermented in say a shed, with wildly swinging temps, and wondered why there brew ended up tasting cack.

I've read much of that thread on HBT. The reason why I've not tried warm fermenting lager is that some of the lager yeast (like 34/70) have medium to low flocculation requiring cold crashing/lagering to get the beer bright. Which of course negates the point of warm fermenting

 

[MyQul]

As the weather is taking a turn for the cooler again I'm going to do a CML Californa Common starter with 1g of yeast and 600ml of (real wort) starter as I want to make a blonde ale later in the week

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The reason why I've not tried warm fermenting lager is that some of the lager yeast (like 34/70) have medium to low flocculation requiring cold crashing/lagering to get the beer bright. Which of course negates the point of warm fermenting

Well some people can manage a brief crash (like putting it outside overnight) without having the facilities for long-term temperature management. But it's the main argument for M54 and WLP800, they drop much better than 34/70 which is what most people use. In fact WLP800 is quite a nice yeast, I've only used it once but it works quite well as a Chico substitute.

Also worth mentioning Bootleg Biology's Oslo kveik, which is claimed to be suitable for hot fermentation of lager - Wicklow's Ubbe yeast is probably a knock-off of it. There's been quite a bit of discussion over on HBT.

 

[MyQul]

@Northern_Brewer That's a good Idea (putting the brew outside) How long do you think it would take to crash a brew by doing this?

I really like CaliCommon yeasts. I've used both M54 and CML CaliCommon but I prefer CML as its cheaper and M54 takes a long time to kick off in my experience.

The other reason I havent tried warm fermenting a true lager strain is because of the sulphur. MrsMQ would not be happy if I made the flat smell of dog farts. I am aware that their are low sulphur strains though

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Depends a bit on temperature, but shouldn't be too long at current night temperatures - overnight should be fine. Just need to be a bit paranoid about cleanliness and sanitation.

Proper nutrition should help with the sulphur.

 

[MyQul]

Depends a bit on temperature, but shouldn't be too long at current night temperatures - overnight should be fine. Just need to be a bit paranoid about cleanliness and santitation.

Proper nutrition should help with the sulphur.

Tbh, Im thinking of it for next winter when it's very cold.

So putting some yeast nutrient should deal with the sulphur?

I always leave my no chill FV's outside to cool for several hours and I've never had a problem so I think I should be ok to do a overnight crash cool

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If it gets too cold then you run the risk of freezing it, about now (bit of an air frost but not properly freezing) is more or less perfect.

Nutrient isn't a magic cure-all, but in general sulphur is a sign of a stressed fermentation and making sure it has enough nutrients is one way to make it less stressed. Ditto pitching enough yeast, and making sure they're in prime condition - it's not good enough to dig some out after a few weeks at the back of the fridge and think "that'll do", you want a nice active starter.

Having said that, there are some strains and some grists which will make sulphur no matter what you do - the Bavarian strains generally seem to be the worst but I'm not really a lager drinker or brewer so I bow to other's experience on that front.

 

[MyQul]

If it gets too cold then you run the risk of freezing it, about now (bit of an air frost but not properly freezing) is more or less perfect.

Nutrient isn't a magic cure-all, but in general sulphur is a sign of a stressed fermentation and making sure it has enough nutrients is one way to make it less stressed. Ditto pitching enough yeast, and making sure they're in prime condition - it's not good enough to dig some out after a few weeks at the back of the fridge and think "that'll do", you want a nice active starter.

Having said that, there are some strains and some grists which will make sulphur no matter what you do - the Bavarian strains generally seem to be the worst but I'm not really a lager drinker or brewer so I bow to other's experience on that front.

Ah, didnt think about it freezing.

When I said I hadnt tried warm fermentation because of sulphur. I was talking about the sulphur coming from lager strains, which are notorious for sulphur, rather than incorrectly using an ale strain by stressing it or under pitching

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I was talking about lager strains - all those factors still affect how sulphury they get, even if the base level is higher than ale strains. (and is quite strain-dependent)

 

[nixhaz]

Hope it's ok to ask..
So I built a starter with young's lager yeast (it's all I could find) and pitched yesterday as per Brewers Friend, the temp is pretty steady around 13-14 where it is. How long roughly will it need to stay there do you guys reckon? (26L at 1.036 OG). Thanks in advance.

 

[terrym]

If/when there are signs of a fermentation underway I would then leave it 7-10 days then take another reading and if its done/nearly done slowly increase the temperature to about 20*C for a bulk diacetyl rest for couple of days or until its finished, and then drop the temperature again to get it to clear before packaging.