Barrelling sugar advice

[M40RKC]

Hey guys, firstly I'm brand new to home brew, and new to forums, first post ever! so if I'm meant to do anything different just get me told!
I have a youngs IPA in a ballyhoo keg that I'm patiently waiting on being able to drink but that's nothing to do with my questions today, I'm looking for some advice and pointers on barreling a lager, this is brew no2 for me. I have a brewbarrel 40pint Bavarian lager in the fermenter bucket at the moment that's nearing its end, I purchased a new stainless steel keg, as I had read lagers produce a bit more pressure and the plastic kegs weren't recommended (also my plastic keg is in use and was a nice excuse to buy a nice shiny stainless one) I have 1kg of coopers brew enhancer 2 sitting, 2kg of brewing sugar and a cupboard full of regular table sugar. My question at the moment is which should I use for barrelling my lager? Instructions says brewing sugar or table sugar but is one better than the other and would coopers brew enhancer be better or worse to use? I'm going to use the quantity the instructions say for bottling which is 1 tablespoon per litre. Iv also read to melt the sugar in some boiling water, opinions?
As I say I'm new to this so all help is highly appreciated

 

[Slid]

Hey guys, firstly I'm brand new to home brew, and new to forums, first post ever! so if I'm meant to do anything different just get me told!
I have a youngs IPA in a ballyhoo keg that I'm patiently waiting on being able to drink but that's nothing to do with my questions today, I'm looking for some advice and pointers on barreling a lager, this is brew no2 for me. I have a brewbarrel 40pint Bavarian lager in the fermenter bucket at the moment that's nearing its end, I purchased a new stainless steel keg, as I had read lagers produce a bit more pressure and the plastic kegs weren't recommended (also my plastic keg is in use and was a nice excuse to buy a nice shiny stainless one) I have 1kg of coopers brew enhancer 2 sitting, 2kg of brewing sugar and a cupboard full of regular table sugar. My question at the moment is which should I use for barrelling my lager? Instructions says brewing sugar or table sugar but is one better than the other and would coopers brew enhancer be better or worse to use? I'm going to use the quantity the instructions say for bottling which is 1 tablespoon per litre. Iv also read to melt the sugar in some boiling water, opinions?
As I say I'm new to this so all help is highly appreciated

Table sugar is fine for priming, Dissolving is only helpful if you are in a rush.

8g per litre is a lot of priming sugar. Top-end of the scale from my experience.

 

[DoctorMick]

What is the stainless steel keg you've bought? Some can only handle a limited amount of pressure.

 

[M40RKC]

Thanks for the reply, when you say it's a lot, what happens if a lot is used? Do you get too much pressure or end up with a sweet beer? I'm just going with the kit instructions but are you meant to use less if barrelling rather than bottling? And Is there any difference in the end result if using the different sugars, sorry for all the questions Like I say I'm new to homebrew so just trying to an idea of pros and cons to different things

 

[M40RKC]

What is the stainless steel keg you've bought? Some can only handle a limited amount of pressure.

The keg is from kegtopia, it's a corny style keg but takes the full 25L the prv is set at 60psi but it states they are tested higher.
Are you allowed to post links here? I could post the website I bought it from

 

[Simonh82]

Thanks for the reply, when you say it's a lot, what happens if a lot is used? Do you get too much pressure or end up with a sweet beer? I'm just going with the kit instructions but are you meant to use less if barrelling rather than bottling? And Is there any difference in the end result if using the different sugars, sorry for all the questions Like I say I'm new to homebrew so just trying to an idea of pros and cons to different things

You won't end up with a sweet beer if you use normal table sugar. It will ferment out completely whilst carbonating your beer. If you use a lot of sugar your beer may be too frothy. It's a good idea to use a priming sugar calculator to work out the correct amount.

With regards to the keg. A corney keg is generally used with a CO2 supply, although you can also prime with sugar. Do you have a CO2 supply? If not you may have trouble dispensing the beer. Once the initial pressure from priming has gone there won't be enough pressure to push the beer up the dip tube and out of a tap.

Please disregard this if I'm stating the bleeding obvious.

 

[M40RKC]

You won't end up with a sweet beer if you use normal table sugar. It will ferment out completely whilst carbonating your beer. If you use a lot of sugar your beer may be too frothy. It's a good idea to use a priming sugar calculator to work out the correct amount.

With regards to the keg. A corney keg is generally used with a CO2 supply, although you can also prime with sugar. Do you have a CO2 supply? If not you may have trouble dispensing the beer. Once the initial pressure from priming has gone there won't be enough pressure to push the beer up the dip tube and out of a tap.

Please disregard this if I'm stating the bleeding obvious.

Thanks for the reply, I have after having a good look about google found out a bit more and got a print out for the priming sugar calculator, it gives a required co volumes for different beer types against temp and how much priming sugar to use, it is based on a US 5 gallon but I have converted it back to litres to avoid the uk us gallon confusions, so it's looking like 4-4.5g per litre which is about half the amount the kit instructions mention, I find it hard to believe but the kit instructions are maybe wrong, it says 1 tablespoon but I think it should say 1 teaspoon.

And yes I'm sorted with co2 (have welding bottles, regulators fittings etc so soted a bottle of food grade co2) and just in the process of converting a new chest freezer to a keg fridge for the garage, waiting on the thermostat turning up. Also by the off chance I have a friend who owns a pub who has offered me a new boxed tap, so all going well il be pulling a pint in my garage some time in the not too distant future!

And don't worry there's no such thing as stating the obvious, the obvious for one person isn't always obvious to others so all info is appreciated!!

 

[Simonh82]

Sounds like you are sorted. There is a good priming sugar calculator on Brewers Friend. You can plug in your numbers and it gives you the amount of sugar to use.

If you've got a corny keg you can force carbonate too. Others will know much more about it but I believe you crank up the pressure for 2-3 days before turning it down to serving pressure.

You've then got fizzy beer in a few days rather than 2 weeks.

 

[zippy40]

The keg is from kegtopia, it's a corny style keg but takes the full 25L the prv is set at 60psi but it states they are tested higher.
Are you allowed to post links here? I could post the website I bought it from

seen these kegs on ebay and I want a couple too lol. They look great but you would also need CO2 cylinder, regulator and keg tap from my experience as a min. I am seriously thinking of going the whole hog and making a draft beer bar setup at home.

 

[M40RKC]

Sounds like you are sorted. There is a good priming sugar calculator on Brewers Friend. You can plug in your numbers and it gives you the amount of sugar to use.

If you've got a corny keg you can force carbonate too. Others will know much more about it but I believe you crank up the pressure for 2-3 days before turning it down to serving pressure.

You've then got fizzy beer in a few days rather than 2 weeks.

I like the sound of that, days and not weeks, didn't realise you could force carb the beer, something else il have to check out.
And thanks Il also go check out brewers friend calculator, I found a pretty good site called howtobrew by John palmer, was well worth a read and got a good few of my uncertainties answered.

 

[M40RKC]

seen these kegs on ebay and I want a couple too lol. They look great but you would also need CO2 cylinder, regulator and keg tap from my experience as a min. I am seriously thinking of going the whole hog and making a draft beer bar setup at home.

That's where I first seen them and checked them out on the web, everything is meant to be interchangeable with the corny kegs but as I don't have any corny legs I can't say for sure. They look quite nice, welds inside are tidy and can't see any drawbacks at the moment.
That's what I'm doing in my garage, just setting up everything once with a tap etc

 

[DoctorMick]

I like the sound of that, days and not weeks, didn't realise you could force carb the beer, something else il have to check out.
And thanks Il also go check out brewers friend calculator, I found a pretty good site called howtobrew by John palmer, was well worth a read and got a good few of my uncertainties answered.

That site is a good reference but it is based on a pretty old version of the Jogn Palmer book so has some advice which has since changed. It's worth picking up a copy of the latest version of the book.

 

[M40RKC]

Thanks il check out his latest book, something else to the shopping list.
I started the homebrew beer thinking it would be a cheap way of having beer....... it's not really going to plan so far haha!

 

[chewie]

Thanks il check out his latest book, something else to the shopping list.
I started the homebrew beer thinking it would be a cheap way of having beer....... it's not really going to plan so far haha!

The cost comes down to how much you value your end product and your time, the more expensive dispensing hardware will have a longer payback time but less cleaning time compared to bottling. Once you have it though it will last a very long time.

 

[M40RKC]

The cost comes down to how much you value your end product and your time, the more expensive dispensing hardware will have a longer payback time but less cleaning time compared to bottling. Once you have it though it will last a very long time.

That's the way I was looking at it, higher initial outlay should give less hassle and make things easier in the long run, and who doesn't want a beer tap in the garage!

 

[Fil]

Kegs are only the containers of a dispense system that generally involve regulated co2 supply and the ability to maintain a consistent temperature, and some keg pressure balancing before the tap.

the level of condition that is contained in the beer served is dependent on its storage temperature and serving pressure.

Hence the popularity of the keg fridge allowing you to maintain the beer at a specific temp for serving.
http://www.kegerators.com/articles/carbonation-table-pressure-chart.php
With control over the kegs temperature you can simply set it up to serve let it sit a week and pour till empty you can accelerate the conditioning by agitating the keg but a week or so wait is still way shorter than waiting 2 weeks for a natural condition to form.

You still may want to let the beer mature however, unless you like green beer



Then after the serving pressure has been ascertained you need to consider balancing off that level of pressure before the beer hits the tap point, if beer exits the tap @10psi for example the difference in pressure at release will be so high it will stimulate a foam out or catastrophic dumping of all co2 or condition contained. This is generally achieved using a length of the 3/16" microline before the tap as its small bore has a great pressure reducing quality, generally a length of 5-6 feet prior to the tap is sufficient to balance off the highest serving pressure.
Other options exist such as inline flow restrictors or flow control taps, fwiw my own experience with dalex style black plastic flow control taps is they are great with low serving pressures but over 6-8psi they become impossible to set at the sweet spot needing a fiddle every pour.

 

[M40RKC]

Kegs are only the containers of a dispense system that generally involve regulated co2 supply and the ability to maintain a consistent temperature, and some keg pressure balancing before the tap.

the level of condition that is contained in the beer served is dependent on its storage temperature and serving pressure.

Hence the popularity of the keg fridge allowing you to maintain the beer at a specific temp for serving.
http://www.kegerators.com/articles/carbonation-table-pressure-chart.php
With control over the kegs temperature you can simply set it up to serve let it sit a week and pour till empty you can accelerate the conditioning by agitating the keg but a week or so wait is still way shorter than waiting 2 weeks for a natural condition to form.

You still may want to let the beer mature however, unless you like green beer



Then after the serving pressure has been ascertained you need to consider balancing off that level of pressure before the beer hits the tap point, if beer exits the tap @10psi for example the difference in pressure at release will be so high it will stimulate a foam out or catastrophic dumping of all co2 or condition contained. This is generally achieved using a length of the 3/16" microline before the tap as its small bore has a great pressure reducing quality, generally a length of 5-6 feet prior to the tap is sufficient to balance off the highest serving pressure.
Other options exist such as inline flow restrictors or flow control taps, fwiw my own experience with dalex style black plastic flow control taps is they are great with low serving pressures but over 6-8psi they become impossible to set at the sweet spot needing a fiddle every pour.

Thanks, I'm currently in the process of making a 200L chest freezer into a kegerator. Co2 and regulators are all sorted out, found a formula for the 3/16 serving pipe length so have a 7' length sitting with jg quick fittings. That was based on a 22psi barrel pressure so will see how that works, guessing il have some fiddling to get it all working well. I was checking out those regulated taps on eBay, there were a few not all that badly priced, Im getting a new pub tap for nothing so haven't looked into them much more but they are on the shopppng list!

I will prob do this batch with sugar and just go through the waiting process as per the instructions, but will give it a go at some point with only co2.
That was something else I wasn't too sure about, re-agitating the beer and if it made any difference, from what your saying it will condition quicker and be ready sooner?

 

[Fil]

condition quicker with pressure for sure, if it will be ready any sooner is a matter of personal taste and preference, by all means sample as soon as you like, and some brews such as those loaded with aroma hop bombs are intended to be drunk green, but it may well take a further few weeks or longer to mature to taste too.