Rye IPA from Wilco kit

I'm thinking of doing a rye IPA and using one of the Wilco kits as a base, by adding some crushed rye to the kit, and also using up some of the stuff I have in stock like extra DME and hops. I also have 650g of malt extract which was bought from Holland & Barrett - might chuck that in it too.

Anybody tried something similar?

Which kit do you think would be best as a base? I'm thinking the IPA.

I'm thinking 20-23L batch, 1-2 kg of rye, 500-1000g mixture of light and medium DME and the H&B extract, hop additions then top up with sugar (if needed), to make it around 6-7%.

Anything else I should consider?

Thanks

You might have to mash the rye with a diastase containing grain like pale malt or you will end up with a starch haze. None of the LME you intend to use contains diastase. And the Potters LME comes up dark if I remember correctly

terrym said:

You might have to mash the rye with a diastase containing grain like pale malt or you will end up with a starch haze. None of the LME you intend to use contains diastase. And the Potters LME comes up dark if I remember correctly

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Ok, so I would it be better off adding Rye LME then?
And then maybe steep a different specialty grain in place of the potters?

Thanks

fury_tea said:

Ok, so I would it be better off adding Rye LME then?
And then maybe steep a different specialty grain in place of the potters?

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Not used rye LME, and tbh didnt know you could get it.
What about using rye malt grain? You should not have to mash that (others may comment on that)
Or instead of just steeping grain or you might be better carrying out a partial mash using smallish quantities of grain to augment your kit, so that you can use unmalted rye. Thats what others like me do to kits. More here
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/simple-kit-plus-mini-mash-method-to-improve-a-kit.52938/

terrym said:

Not used rye LME, and tbh didnt know you could get it.

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They have it on Beerhawk, yeah.

Thanks for the other info

terrym said:

Not used rye LME, and tbh didnt know you could get it.
What about using rye malt grain? You should not have to mash that (others may comment on that)
Or instead of just steeping grain or you might be better carrying out a partial mash using smallish quantities of grain to augment your kit, so that you can use unmalted rye. Thats what others like me do to kits. More here
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/simple-kit-plus-mini-mash-method-to-improve-a-kit.52938/

Click to expand...

Just a thought? If kit brewers go to the time & trouble of mini mashing to pimp kits, why not just go AG? aunsure....

I'd avoid steeping rye malt, unless you like starchy beer.

Dull Boy said:

Just a thought? If kit brewers go to the time & trouble of mini mashing to pimp kits, why not just go AG? aunsure....

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Time, space, inclination possibly budget to name a few. In spite of what some folks would have you believe you can still brew good beer from a kit, you just have to know how to do it, and that comes with a little experience.

terrym said:

Time, space, inclination possibly budget to name a few. In spite of what some folks would have you believe you can still brew good beer from a kit, you just have to know how to do it, and that comes with a little experience.

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The very reason I'm hardcore BIAB, I use to dry hop kits before I went AG, but that was the only pimpin I did.

OK, thanks for the help. I'm gonna go with the rye LME, and steep some carapils and vienna. Might even add a small amount of oatmeal for extra mouthfeel.
Then add in the DME and the Wilco IPA kit, with cascade and centennial hop additions.

How's that sound?

[Edit - the beerhawk LME is just a mix of "70% American 2-row pale, 20% malted rye, and 10% caramel/crystal 40"

Would there be enough rye in this to make it a ripa? Or should I just drop the IPA kit altogether and up the amount of this LME and the hops?]

fury_tea said:

OK, thanks for the help. I'm gonna go with the rye LME, and steep some carapils and vienna. Might even add a small amount of oatmeal for extra mouthfeel.
Then add in the DME and the Wilco IPA kit, with cascade and centennial hop additions.

How's that sound?

[Edit - the beerhawk LME is just a mix of "70% American 2-row pale, 20% malted rye, and 10% caramel/crystal 40"

Would there be enough rye in this to make it a ripa? Or should I just drop the IPA kit altogether and up the amount of this LME and the hops?]

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20% is a decent amount of Rye, I do mine at this percentage. Don't steep the oatmeal or carapils for the same reason you don't steep rye. My advice & as others have stated is to do a mini-mash, you can then throw the oatmeal, vienna & carapils in.

Dull Boy said:

Don't steep the oatmeal or carapils for the same reason you don't steep rye. My advice & as others have stated is to do a mini-mash, you can then throw the oatmeal, vienna & carapils in.

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+1 on that.
My suggestion to @fury_tea is to research which grains need to be mashed and why, and which grains only need steeping and work from there

My LHBS was also out of carapils and vienna so I decided to go with a mini-mash with oats, crystal malt and a bit of chocolate malt, and the Rye LME, a little of the Potters LME and some DME (mostly medium with whatever light I have left). I changed my mind a few times on the recipe and when I did come to a decision, Wilkos was out of the kit! I got a coopers "Brew A IPA" instead.

Here's my 'final' recipe. From what I can find online the coopers kit adds 38 IBUs when made up to 23L so with my additions that makes it around 70?

Going to brew this up this week, I'm pretty new to this and I'm kind of winging it so if there's anything that sticks out I'd appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: RyePA
Brew Method: Partial Mash
Batch Size: 23 liters (fermentor volume)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.058
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 6.12%
IBU (tinseth): 32.54

FERMENTABLES:
1 kg - Dry Malt Extract - Light/Medium (21.1%)
1.43 kg - Liquid Malt Extract - Rye (30.2%)
0.2 kg - Liquid Malt Extract - Potters (4.2%)
0.2 kg - Rolled Oats (4.2%)
0.25 kg - New Zealand - Medium Crystal Malt (5.3%)
0.15 kg - Finland - Chocolate Malt (3.2%)
1.5 kg - Coopers A IPA Kit (31.7%)
HOPS:
20 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 11.73
10 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 6.45
5 g - Cascade LupuLN2, Type: Lupulin Pellet, AA: 12, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 2.7
10 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 4.96
10 g - Cascade LupuLN2, Type: Lupulin Pellet, AA: 12, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 3.49
10 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 3.2
10 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 12, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
10 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 12.22 - 25 C
Fermentation Temp: 20 C

So your mash is 0.2kg oats, 0.25g crystal and 0.15kg chocolate malt?
Where are the enzymes coming from?

Llamaman said:

So your mash is 0.2kg oats, 0.25g crystal and 0.15kg chocolate malt?
Where are the enzymes coming from?

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Clearly didn't read post my post #12 and what others have said.

terrym said:

Clearly didn't read post my post #12 and what others have said.

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I feel a ‘what is wrong with my beer?’ thread coming on...
I have some sympathy - diastatic power is quite technical and the difference between steeping and mashing is often skimmed over in some guides - and I’ve seen recipes on respected websites that involve steeped oats!
But I hope the OP read this thread before potentially wasting loads of good ingredients in a poor recipe.
On the other hand, we all need a calamitous brew story, right? :)

Llamaman said:

I feel a ‘what is wrong with my beer?’ thread coming on...
I have some sympathy - diastatic power is quite technical and the difference between steeping and mashing is often skimmed over in some guides - and I’ve seen recipes on respected websites that involve steeped oats!
But I hope the OP read this thread before potentially wasting loads of good ingredients in a poor recipe.
On the other hand, we all need a calamitous brew story, right? :)

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Sorry to disappoint but I decided I just didn't know enough about it, and couldn't answer the question "Where are the enzymes coming from?" so I just decided to stick with the LME, DME and the kit and hop additions. It might not be technically brilliant but should be a drinkable beer.

In the mean time while I wait for this one to ferment I'll just research it further and maybe have a go at a partial mash recipe next time.

Thanks anyway.