'0' - minutes

[Robin54]

What does it really mean

May I ask, since I don't get this one...
Adding hops at 0 minutes. What does it mean??
Is it after cooling?
During cooling?
Are they left in the FV?
Another daft question, so apologies now!

 

[Dutto]

For me (and I may be very wrong) "0 minutes" means that period between switching off the boiler and the time when the wort is cool enough to drain off into the FV.

Sticking the hops in at this time reduces the amount of "aroma hoppiness" lost due to boiling and (as far as I can work out), it's often used instead of cold hopping.

 

[MyQul]

I understand it to mean cool the wort to 80C then put the hops in for 20mins. Then cool to pitching temp. So thats what I do.

 

[Halfacrem]

Well, I go with '0' minutes as when the beeper on the oven goes off to indicate the boil has finished. I turn the gas off and put the hops in. In the past I've cooled straight away, but recently I've let the hops steep for 20 mins before cooling..

I would hazard a guess that like many things brew related, there are numerous ways of interpreting and probably all work pretty well :)

 

[Robin54]

Interesting answers, since they are all slightly different, hence I was getting well confused what it really meant. Still not sure I do!!!!
Gess Ive got to pick a method and stick to it.

 

[cheapbrew]

I thought it meant at the end of the boil, but as pointed out if the idea is to add hop aroma it would seem best to cool the wort first. Experiment and let us know any difference.

 

[Cwrw666]

I switch off the boiler, chuck in the 0 minute hops, let it stand for half an hour, then drain the boiler into the FV and leave it to cool naturally to pitching temperature.
The beer tastes fine to me so I guess it works.:lol:

 

[Robin54]

I thought it meant at the end of the boil, but as pointed out if the idea is to add hop aroma it would seem best to cool the wort first. Experiment and let us know any difference.

That would make sense, also, but then, how long do you leave them in for - surely not for the whole fermentation period, since dry hopping for aromor would be done when fermentation has almost finished. See why Im confused??

 

[Halfacrem]

That would make sense, also, but then, how long do you leave them in for - surely not for the whole fermentation period, since dry hopping for aromor would be done when fermentation has almost finished. See why Im confused??

Some do. I think MyQul transfers everything from the kettle into his FV (I'll leave him to confirm or deny this :))

Personally I only transfer the cool wort, by draining from the kettle ball valve, or in the past by pouring through a sieve.

 

[geetee]

Interesting answers, since they are all slightly different, hence I was getting well confused what it really meant. Still not sure I do!!!!
Gess Ive got to pick a method and stick to it.

I think the thing to remember is that none of these are correct as there is no real right answer except what works for you. It just muddies the water if you pass your recipe to someone else who misunderstands what you mean by 0 minutes.

My interpretation is anything close to zero in the last 1-2 minutes which gives no chance to add any bitterness to the boil. I would add 0 minutes hops maybe between 1 minute and flame out. There is still the chance however for the boiling temperature to lose some of the hop aroma before flame out.

I would differentiate between 0 minute hops and steep hops as the latter are added only when the wort has cooled to less than 80°C to avoid loss of aroma and flavour.

As I have said this is just MY interpretation and if I was passing a recipe on I would explain what I have written above as part of the recipe for clarity.

 

[MyQul]

That would make sense, also, but then, how long do you leave them in for - surely not for the whole fermentation period, since dry hopping for aromor would be done when fermentation has almost finished. See why Im confused??

The 0 min additon is for flavour and some aroma whilst a dry hop is the reverse, some flavour and mostly aroma.
The essential oils that make the favours and aromas evaporate at different temps (we've had discussions on the forum and this subject in general, about which oils evaporate at which temps previously). If you put the 0 min additon in when the wort is at 100C a lot of the flavour disapears with the steam so you want to cool the wort to at least 80C (some say lower as some essential oils evaporate above 60C)
I wouldnt leave the hops in for the whole two weeks of fermentation as you can extract undesirabe compounds like tannins and soapy flavours. I've done some experiments around this.

 

[MyQul]

Some do. I think MyQul transfers everything from the kettle into his FV (I'll leave him to confirm or deny this :))

Personally I only transfer the cool wort, by draining from the kettle ball valve, or in the past by pouring through a sieve.

That was just when I was experimenting with leaving the hops in the FV for two weeks. I normally pass my wort through a seive on it's way into the FV (I do it by hand/jug as my pot hasnt a tap) to extract the hop debris

 

[strange-steve]

I'm with MyQul on this, the point of the 0 min addition is to add flavour and aroma without bitterness so the best way to do that is to cool to <80°, steep the hops for 20 mins or so then cool to pitching temperature.

 

[Halfacrem]

If it's the case that most hop oils are driven off around the boil mark (and a quick google brings up confirmation of this), there's surely a case for adding all late addition hops post boil and even halfway through cooling.

 

[MyQul]

Here's some threads where we've had similar discussions before. Bit of bed time reading for you Robin

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62588&highlight=myrcene

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60336&highlight=myrcene

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61147&highlight=myrcene

 

[geetee]

If it's the case that most hop oils are driven off around the boil mark (and a quick google brings up confirmation of this), there's surely a case for adding all late addition hops post boil and even halfway through cooling.

....and that is why loads of people do different things with their approach to late hops, I used to add late hops at 15, 10, 5 minutes and then steep but now I tend to limit myself to 1-2 minute hops and then steep with maybe some dry hops if I want.
You have to be very thorough making the same recipe with all of the options to come up with a definitive late hop regime and even then someone else might disagree!

 

[Halfacrem]

....and that is why loads of people do different things with their approach to late hops, I used to add late hops at 15, 10, 5 minutes and then steep but now I tend to limit myself to 1-2 minute hops and then steep with maybe some dry hops if I want.
You have to be very thorough making the same recipe with all of the options to come up with a definitive late hop regime and even then someone else might disagree!

The joy of variety :thumb:

 

[Robin54]

Here's some threads where we've had similar discussions before. Bit of bed time reading for you Robin

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62588&highlight=myrcene

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60336&highlight=myrcene

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61147&highlight=myrcene

Ha ha....I try not to read in bed.................
but I may make an exception this time.
To be fair my ignorance, has brought out some VERY interesting replies, which is all part of the learning process.:thumb:

 

[Soton]

in John Palmers book "How to brew" 0 means once the boil is over at "flame out" you turn off your heat ready for cooling then allow to steep for ten minutes

 

[mike-os]

i have done repeat brews the first of which hops were added at 0 minutes / flameout... as soon as the heater went off, others (more recently i have cooled to 80c then added hops.... not sure my pallet is good enough to tell the difference tbh, but seems logical that dropping below the point the hop oils are lost should offer some improvement in flavour & aroma retention