30L Keykeg Attachement Advice

[Cellular]

Hi All,

I've managed to get hold of a couple of used 30L plastic Keykegs for free. I know these are pressure rated so was thinking if/how i could re-use them.

First things first I've (eventually) removed the bag from inside the keg as it'd be a nightmare to work with. This has been done without damaging the top. I have since then used them for secondary fermentation of some big batches of wine. They are perfect for this as it's easy to get a tight seal on them with the correct size bung.

After brewing more beer and fizzy things this winter I was wondering if it would be possible to get a proper coupler for them such as the one on the link below and use them to force carb stuff. This would need a tube going down into the keg I guess as otherwise it won't draw any beer when pressurised.

https://www.micro-matic.com/en/products/beverage-dispense-equipment/keg-couplers/keykeg-coupler
Anyone else had much luck in reusing these things? Could I just run it upside down instead of having a tube go into it?

Cheers

 

[stripeyjoe]

I think you'd be better off seeing if you can get a different type of coupler connection for the top of the keg, one that is designed to work with a dip tube. I guess, in a key keg connection, the inner bag forms a seal around the 'out' port (probably in the middle of the coupler) and the gas vents outside of that to put pressure between the keg wall and the inner bag. Possibly you could fix a dip tube to the out port but might be difficult.

 

[stripeyjoe]

Looks like the gas comes out of the 2 small holes underneath the seal and the central piece forms a seal with the top of the inner bag.

Service manual for coupler here:
https://media-cdn.micro-matic.com/v...01a3b5d7b0df/user manual - keykeg coupler.pdf

 

[Cellular]

Yeah great thanks. So I think it would seal no probs, just need to fix a dip tube onto the coupler. Plastic one would probably be fine.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@Cellular
I've been using these for about 2.5 years very successfully. Not just the 30 litre but also the 20 litre ones.
If I get a problem then I just squash and recycle them and get another.
They also make quite good low level stools with a cushion on them.

So how do I do it. Get the bags out and don't keep any of the parts.
Give a really good clean of the neck region in PBW not too hot, just inverted in a ferment bucket and squeeze the key keg to suck some pbw in. Leave it for as long as I need. I do this each time before use as there's a lot going on at the neck region with the way the grey top is fitted in.

I have just picked up one of those Micromatic key keg couplers and intend to use it on key keg that had a brett beer in and will keep it for that purpose only.

My standard method uses these
https://www.kegland.com.au/ball-lock-tapping-head-to-2inch-tri-clover-commercial-keg-adaptor.html
I picked up a couple in australia and then ordered others via aliexpress.

You do need to do some key keg modification to get these to work.

I either use a stiffer plastic tube on it rather than the very flimsy silicone that floats up and doesn't stay near the bottom of the keg.

But most importantly you need to adjust the top of the key keg.
Firstly hacksaw off the outer neck so it's at the level of the grey collar being careful not to saw into the grey bit ( certainly not deeply) .
The keg flange is too thick to allow the tri clamp to engage with the washer and top part so you have to either dremel or hacksaw a bit off to make it less thick. It's really not much to come off, too much and you can't get it tight and so not gas tight, bit of a learning curve. I also find there is a bit of a sweet spot in positioning the clamp ( because of the hinge ) to get a really tight seal. Hence you will see that back is written on the keg so that I know where to put the hinge of the clamp. Makes it easier when fiddling about trimming it as well to be consistent.
Do use a bit of silicone lube and check you have a good seal. I used one for a pressure ferment of some elderflower fizz with kveik at 35 psi and then chilled and counterpressure filled the bottles to get the 4 vols I wanted. Regular pressures for the rest of them and cope with closed transfers etc. I don't use a floating dip tube as I haven't found a small enough float that can fit thru the neck but a synthetic cork would be perfect, but haven't seen one of those for ages.
Photo of mods below and in use plus some other keg variants
I had a christmas ale in one for about 12 months without problems or taste, currently using 2 20 litres in the back of my keg fridge one for sparkling water and the other filled with pilsner, sankeys in the front of it.

There are other plastic kegs around, I also have these in my collection, most of those take standard sankey connectors and but I just used the adapters on them they fit easy. But now I have a load of sankey connectors so might convert, the fiddly thing is getting the right diameter tube to fit in the beer out rather than using the proprietary metal tube, although if I could get some more of these variant plastic kegs i remember they had wider plastic dip tubes on them.



You can also peel the outer layer off the key kegs and then you do get a slightly shorter keg that can't stand on it's own. All that grot is between the outer layer and the proper inner skin, doesn't look good but impossible to clean and nowhere near the beer.

 

[Cellular]

@Cellular
I've been using these for about 2.5 years very successfully. Not just the 30 litre but also the 20 litre ones.
If I get a problem then I just squash and recycle them and get another.
They also make quite good low level stools with a cushion on them.

So how do I do it. Get the bags out and don't keep any of the parts.
Give a really good clean of the neck region in PBW not too hot, just inverted in a ferment bucket and squeeze the key keg to suck some pbw in. Leave it for as long as I need. I do this each time before use as there's a lot going on at the neck region with the way the grey top is fitted in.

I have just picked up one of those Micromatic key keg couplers and intend to use it on key keg that had a brett beer in and will keep it for that purpose only.

My standard method uses these
https://www.kegland.com.au/ball-lock-tapping-head-to-2inch-tri-clover-commercial-keg-adaptor.html
I picked up a couple in australia and then ordered others via aliexpress.

You do need to do some key keg modification to get these to work.

I either use a stiffer plastic tube on it rather than the very flimsy silicone that floats up and doesn't stay near the bottom of the keg.

But most importantly you need to adjust the top of the key keg.
Firstly hacksaw off the outer neck so it's at the level of the grey collar being careful not to saw into the grey bit ( certainly not deeply) .
The keg flange is too thick to allow the tri clamp to engage with the washer and top part so you have to either dremel or hacksaw a bit off to make it less thick. It's really not much to come off, too much and you can't get it tight and so not gas tight, bit of a learning curve. I also find there is a bit of a sweet spot in positioning the clamp ( because of the hinge ) to get a really tight seal. Hence you will see that back is written on the keg so that I know where to put the hinge of the clamp. Makes it easier when fiddling about trimming it as well to be consistent.
Do use a bit of silicone lube and check you have a good seal. I used one for a pressure ferment of some elderflower fizz with kveik at 35 psi and then chilled and counterpressure filled the bottles to get the 4 vols I wanted. Regular pressures for the rest of them and cope with closed transfers etc. I don't use a floating dip tube as I haven't found a small enough float that can fit thru the neck but a synthetic cork would be perfect, but haven't seen one of those for ages.
Photo of mods below and in use plus some other keg variants
I had a christmas ale in one for about 12 months without problems or taste, currently using 2 20 litres in the back of my keg fridge one for sparkling water and the other filled with pilsner, sankeys in the front of it.

There are other plastic kegs around, I also have these in my collection, most of those take standard sankey connectors and but I just used the adapters on them they fit easy. But now I have a load of sankey connectors so might convert, the fiddly thing is getting the right diameter tube to fit in the beer out rather than using the proprietary metal tube, although if I could get some more of these variant plastic kegs i remember they had wider plastic dip tubes on them.
View attachment 49064View attachment 49065
View attachment 49063

You can also peel the outer layer off the key kegs and then you do get a slightly shorter keg that can't stand on it's own. All that grot is between the outer layer and the proper inner skin, doesn't look good but impossible to clean and nowhere near the beer.

That's awesome thanks and just what I was looking for. I'm sure others will find it useful as well as these kegs can be found for free from a lot of places as they are typically only designed for single use in the trade. Saves buying more corny kegs!

 

[RoomWithABrew]

That's awesome thanks and just what I was looking for. I'm sure others will find it useful as well as these kegs can be found for free from a lot of places as they are typically only designed for single use in the trade. Saves buying more corny kegs!

Yes it's actually worth asking around places to see which ones they have, I think the one called a pet keg is really good. 23 litres, you can take the lid off remove the bag and then just put a sankey connector in or the adapter I use and it's dark brown.
Like this the right hand keg with key keg to the left, not a great view I'm afraid.

 

[Drummone]

@Cellular
I've been using these for about 2.5 years very successfully. Not just the 30 litre but also the 20 litre ones.
If I get a problem then I just squash and recycle them and get another.
They also make quite good low level stools with a cushion on them.

So how do I do it. Get the bags out and don't keep any of the parts.
Give a really good clean of the neck region in PBW not too hot, just inverted in a ferment bucket and squeeze the key keg to suck some pbw in. Leave it for as long as I need. I do this each time before use as there's a lot going on at the neck region with the way the grey top is fitted in.

I have just picked up one of those Micromatic key keg couplers and intend to use it on key keg that had a brett beer in and will keep it for that purpose only.

My standard method uses these
https://www.kegland.com.au/ball-lock-tapping-head-to-2inch-tri-clover-commercial-keg-adaptor.html
I picked up a couple in australia and then ordered others via aliexpress.

You do need to do some key keg modification to get these to work.

I either use a stiffer plastic tube on it rather than the very flimsy silicone that floats up and doesn't stay near the bottom of the keg.

But most importantly you need to adjust the top of the key keg.
Firstly hacksaw off the outer neck so it's at the level of the grey collar being careful not to saw into the grey bit ( certainly not deeply) .
The keg flange is too thick to allow the tri clamp to engage with the washer and top part so you have to either dremel or hacksaw a bit off to make it less thick. It's really not much to come off, too much and you can't get it tight and so not gas tight, bit of a learning curve. I also find there is a bit of a sweet spot in positioning the clamp ( because of the hinge ) to get a really tight seal. Hence you will see that back is written on the keg so that I know where to put the hinge of the clamp. Makes it easier when fiddling about trimming it as well to be consistent.
Do use a bit of silicone lube and check you have a good seal. I used one for a pressure ferment of some elderflower fizz with kveik at 35 psi and then chilled and counterpressure filled the bottles to get the 4 vols I wanted. Regular pressures for the rest of them and cope with closed transfers etc. I don't use a floating dip tube as I haven't found a small enough float that can fit thru the neck but a synthetic cork would be perfect, but haven't seen one of those for ages.
Photo of mods below and in use plus some other keg variants
I had a christmas ale in one for about 12 months without problems or taste, currently using 2 20 litres in the back of my keg fridge one for sparkling water and the other filled with pilsner, sankeys in the front of it.

There are other plastic kegs around, I also have these in my collection, most of those take standard sankey connectors and but I just used the adapters on them they fit easy. But now I have a load of sankey connectors so might convert, the fiddly thing is getting the right diameter tube to fit in the beer out rather than using the proprietary metal tube, although if I could get some more of these variant plastic kegs i remember they had wider plastic dip tubes on them.
View attachment 49064View attachment 49065
View attachment 49063

You can also peel the outer layer off the key kegs and then you do get a slightly shorter keg that can't stand on it's own. All that grot is between the outer layer and the proper inner skin, doesn't look good but impossible to clean and nowhere near the beer.

Yes it's actually worth asking around places to see which ones they have, I think the one called a pet keg is really good. 23 litres, you can take the lid off remove the bag and then just put a sankey connector in or the adapter I use and it's dark brown.
Like this the right hand keg with key keg to the left, not a great view I'm afraid.
View attachment 49205

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Relit an old thread here.
I've been using more of the one way petainers 19 litres each, D Sankey fitting. Means I can transfer a beer into them and tap at my leisure. The triclamp on the top connector needs to stay on from purging and serving.

Bit more of a pain to clean using warm PBW circulating in the liquid post and out via the gas using a pump but gets the job done.
Trouble is I've collected more barrels than I can get filled!
Must try harder.

 

[Drummone]

@Cellular
I've been using these for about 2.5 years very successfully. Not just the 30 litre but also the 20 litre ones.
If I get a problem then I just squash and recycle them and get another.
They also make quite good low level stools with a cushion on them.

So how do I do it. Get the bags out and don't keep any of the parts.
Give a really good clean of the neck region in PBW not too hot, just inverted in a ferment bucket and squeeze the key keg to suck some pbw in. Leave it for as long as I need. I do this each time before use as there's a lot going on at the neck region with the way the grey top is fitted in.

I have just picked up one of those Micromatic key keg couplers and intend to use it on key keg that had a brett beer in and will keep it for that purpose only.

My standard method uses these
https://www.kegland.com.au/ball-lock-tapping-head-to-2inch-tri-clover-commercial-keg-adaptor.html
I picked up a couple in australia and then ordered others via aliexpress.

You do need to do some key keg modification to get these to work.

I either use a stiffer plastic tube on it rather than the very flimsy silicone that floats up and doesn't stay near the bottom of the keg.

But most importantly you need to adjust the top of the key keg.
Firstly hacksaw off the outer neck so it's at the level of the grey collar being careful not to saw into the grey bit ( certainly not deeply) .
The keg flange is too thick to allow the tri clamp to engage with the washer and top part so you have to either dremel or hacksaw a bit off to make it less thick. It's really not much to come off, too much and you can't get it tight and so not gas tight, bit of a learning curve. I also find there is a bit of a sweet spot in positioning the clamp ( because of the hinge ) to get a really tight seal. Hence you will see that back is written on the keg so that I know where to put the hinge of the clamp. Makes it easier when fiddling about trimming it as well to be consistent.
Do use a bit of silicone lube and check you have a good seal. I used one for a pressure ferment of some elderflower fizz with kveik at 35 psi and then chilled and counterpressure filled the bottles to get the 4 vols I wanted. Regular pressures for the rest of them and cope with closed transfers etc. I don't use a floating dip tube as I haven't found a small enough float that can fit thru the neck but a synthetic cork would be perfect, but haven't seen one of those for ages.
Photo of mods below and in use plus some other keg variants
I had a christmas ale in one for about 12 months without problems or taste, currently using 2 20 litres in the back of my keg fridge one for sparkling water and the other filled with pilsner, sankeys in the front of it.

There are other plastic kegs around, I also have these in my collection, most of those take standard sankey connectors and but I just used the adapters on them they fit easy. But now I have a load of sankey connectors so might convert, the fiddly thing is getting the right diameter tube to fit in the beer out rather than using the proprietary metal tube, although if I could get some more of these variant plastic kegs i remember they had wider plastic dip tubes on them.
View attachment 49064View attachment 49065
View attachment 49063

You can also peel the outer layer off the key kegs and then you do get a slightly shorter keg that can't stand on it's own. All that grot is between the outer layer and the proper inner skin, doesn't look good but impossible to clean and nowhere near the beer.

This is a very clever idea. Do you have any other pictures? Cant quite work out how the

Relit an old thread here.
I've been using more of the one way petainers 19 litres each, D Sankey fitting. Means I can transfer a beer into them and tap at my leisure. The triclamp on the top connector needs to stay on from purging and serving.

Bit more of a pain to clean using warm PBW circulating in the liquid post and out via the gas using a pump but gets the job done.
Trouble is I've collected more barrels than I can get filled!
Must try harder.

thanks for replying - not sure where all my post went... I really want to have a go at this as I have access to the 30L Keykegs. I'd really like to ferment under pressure as up until now just been using them unpressurised. Thought is impossible until I stumbled upon your post. What size is the triclamp 2.5"? Cheers

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I use these on the top of the keykegs.

https://www.kegland.com.au/products...rcial-keg-adaptor?_pos=1&_sid=325e05356&_ss=r

You do have to thin the bit that the normal connector locates on down a little bit otherwise the clamp can't grip the bit with the ball locks on.

You can just use the normal keykeg connector but you MUST take the Non return in the gas and liquid out.

The issue with them for pressure fermenting is that the normal balls on floating dip tubes won't fit in the top hole.

I have looked around for a synthetic cork to use but they seem to have died out and it's screw caps or corks on wine at the moment.

I pressure ferment in a fermentasaurus and then closed transfer bright carbonated beer into the keykeg, or use as a fermenter open with an airlock.

 

[Drummone]

I use these on the top of the keykegs.

https://www.kegland.com.au/products...rcial-keg-adaptor?_pos=1&_sid=325e05356&_ss=r

You do have to thin the bit that the normal connector locates on down a little bit otherwise the clamp can't grip the bit with the ball locks on.

You can just use the normal keykeg connector but you MUST take the Non return in the gas and liquid out.

The issue with them for pressure fermenting is that the normal balls on floating dip tubes won't fit in the top hole.

I have looked around for a synthetic cork to use but they seem to have died out and it's screw caps or corks on wine at the moment.

I pressure ferment in a fermentasaurus and then closed transfer bright carbonated beer into the keykeg, or use as a fermenter open with an airlock.

Have you tried connecting a 3" try clamp to the inner container?

I use these on the top of the keykegs.

https://www.kegland.com.au/products...rcial-keg-adaptor?_pos=1&_sid=325e05356&_ss=r

You do have to thin the bit that the normal connector locates on down a little bit otherwise the clamp can't grip the bit with the ball locks on.

You can just use the normal keykeg connector but you MUST take the Non return in the gas and liquid out.

The issue with them for pressure fermenting is that the normal balls on floating dip tubes won't fit in the top hole.

I have looked around for a synthetic cork to use but they seem to have died out and it's screw caps or corks on wine at the moment.

I pressure ferment in a fermentasaurus and then closed transfer bright carbonated beer into the keykeg, or use as a fermenter open with an airlock.

I was thinking of trimming down the opening so the part where my finger is and then attach a 3" triclamp.. The opening is about 60mm and would then get a float inside.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

So if you could fit a 3 inch tri clamp on that mod how would you hold the adapter on as it's smaller than 3 inch?
You'd need to have a really smooth flat surface as well for the gasket?
You might be able to get a 3 D print lid to screw on and then fit the ball locks on.
But it's not a threaded opening.

 

[Drummone]

I was thinking a 3" blanking plate with 2 holes drilled for gas/liquid posts

 

[RoomWithABrew]

You'd need a PRV as well.
Something like this.
https://www.kegland.com.au/products...ith-ball-lock-posts-floating-dip-tube-and-prv