All Rounder Cold Crashing

[Mash Monster]

Hi all advice needed
Having just started using my all rounders my first brew under pressure a Cwtch clone was pretty awful so I decided to ferment without pressure and as I was using Verdant IPA yeast I used a blow off tube into 300ml of Chemsan !
All went very well until without thinking I decided to cold crash. Yes You’ve all guessed it SUCK BACK resulting in a thin layer of sanitiser floating on top of the beer. I managed to perform a closed transfer of the beer to my other AR leaving the Chemsan behind .
How can I avoid this is future brews ?
Any help would be appreciated I’ve never had disasters if this magnitude before with using just a bucket and airlock.
I’m prepared to try once more before abandoning my AR’s to the for sale section !!!!

 

[foxy]

Hi all advice needed
Having just started using my all rounders my first brew under pressure a Cwtch clone was pretty awful so I decided to ferment without pressure and as I was using Verdant IPA yeast I used a blow off tube into 300ml of Chemsan !
All went very well until without thinking I decided to cold crash. Yes You’ve all guessed it SUCK BACK resulting in a thin layer of sanitiser floating on top of the beer. I managed to perform a closed transfer of the beer to my other AR leaving the Chemsan behind .
How can I avoid this is future brews ?
Any help would be appreciated I’ve never had disasters if this magnitude before with using just a bucket and airlock.
I’m prepared to try once more before abandoning my AR’s to the for sale section !!!!

Use the balloon to capture co2 the only thing that gets sucked in is the co2 Coffin Dodger uses it in this thread for replacing the vacuum in a pressure barrel. Draught beer.

 

[Bertie Doe]

I've done 4 brews now with the AR, two with cold crashing and two without. The problem happens when I bottle. I use a Blichman gun but I'm putting a lot of froth in each bottle. So much so, that I have to fill ten, then go back and top up.

Some bottles I've primed with C02, some not but makes no difference. After 6 weeks in the bottle, the beer is flat and lacks any head (I don't bottle-prime or bulk prime). Tastewise it's fine but any help would be appreciated, TIA Paul

 

[Jim Brewster]

I have never pressure fermented but in future I will be trying it. Would it be possible to pressurise the fermenter after primary fermentation has subsided and most of the yeast flavours have been expressed, but while there is still enough CO2 production to build up just enough pressure to counteract the cold crash and maintain a positive pressure.

 

[Mash Monster]

I've done 4 brews now with the AR, two with cold crashing and two without. The problem happens when I bottle. I use a Blichman gun but I'm putting a lot of froth in each bottle. So much so, that I have to fill ten, then go back and top up.

Some bottles I've primed with C02, some not but makes no difference. After 6 weeks in the bottle, the beer is flat and lacks any head (I don't bottle-prime or bulk prime). Tastewise it's fine but any help would be appreciated, TIA Paul

Yep I have been having the same problem as you so I either leave it in the AR and use it as a uni tank and serve through a party tap or a Pluto beer gun. Or I bottle prime with carbonation drops which is not ideal ! I have been so frustrated with all the faffing about I am about to change over to using corny kegs sometimes I wish I had stuck to fermenting in a bucket and batch priming before bottling !!!!

 

[Bertie Doe]

Yes it is indeed frustrating but I'll stick with pressure brewing with the AR even though the taste is about 'supermarket' quality. The joy or reaching target fg of 1010 in about 9 days is a big plus. Next time I do an identical 'Reggwelter' recipe, I'll leave it in for say, 16 days and see if the fg is a bit lower and the excess frothing disapears.

 

[dave_77]

Yep I have been having the same problem as you so I either leave it in the AR and use it as a uni tank and serve through a party tap or a Pluto beer gun. Or I bottle prime with carbonation drops which is not ideal ! I have been so frustrated with all the faffing about I am about to change over to using corny kegs sometimes I wish I had stuck to fermenting in a bucket and batch priming before bottling !!!!

Sounds as though you need a spunding valve and a C02 bottle if you don't have co2 already if I'm understanding your situation.

I leave the spunding valve fully open for the first 2-3 days if I want the yeast character or may let it build up a few psi if want a cleaner ferment and then after day 3 you can let it build up to 5-12psi by adjusting the spunding valve. Then there will be enough pressure when you cold crash.
https://brewkegtap.co.uk/products/b...0DQoQRbhoRq962QWUy7JCNYvALizhcnxoCdiMQAvD_BwE
The pressurised fermenters only really benefit when your kegging for closed transfers or sometimes if I'm bottling a whole batch I might closed transfer in to an empty keg or second all-rounder onto a sugar solution and then use gas to bottle from the keg using a counter pressure filler.

 

[foxy]

I have never pressure fermented but in future I will be trying it. Would it be possible to pressurise the fermenter after primary fermentation has subsided and most of the yeast flavours have been expressed, but while there is still enough CO2 production to build up just enough pressure to counteract the cold crash and maintain a positive pressure.

You won't be able to get a positive pressure from fermentation as the co2 in the solution equals out with the co2 in the head space so you will need to close the spunding valve just before fermentation finishes that will give you enough positive pressure for cold crashing, you could always get a bottle of co2 and give a burst into the head space.I don't worry about it now just take the lid off the Apollo and use cling wrap. Never had any trouble with oxidised beer.

 

[Jim Brewster]

you will need to close the spunding valve just before fermentation finishes that will give you enough positive pressure for cold crashing

Ah yes, I think that's what I was trying to say! I meant leave the spunding valve open during the initial phase then close or regulate it after high krausen for example.

 

[Bertie Doe]

Sounds as though you need a spunding valve and a C02 bottle if you don't have co2 already if I'm understanding your situation.

I leave the spunding valve fully open for the first 2-3 days if I want the yeast character or may let it build up a few psi if want a cleaner ferment and then after day 3 you can let it build up to 5-12psi by adjusting the spunding valve. Then there will be enough pressure when you cold crash.

Ah thanks Dave, that's brill. Yes I've got a spunding valve which I normally set to 10 lbs throughout. I try leaving it open for three days, as you say. Yes I've got a CO2 cylinder plus gauges. I wanted one of those handy 5KG jobs but was told by supplier "They haven't been made for years guv". So guv had to get a heavy 20 KG (gross weight) bottles and fork out £50 deposit (you never get to own them).

 

[Mash Monster]

Ah thanks Dave, that's brill. Yes I've got a spunding valve which I normally set to 10 lbs throughout. I try leaving it open for three days, as you say. Yes I've got a CO2 cylinder plus gauges. I wanted one of those handy 5KG jobs but was told by supplier "They haven't been made for years guv". So guv had to get a heavy 20 KG (gross weight) bottles and fork out £50 deposit (you never get to own them).

 

[fgoulding]

I’ve had some similar experiences with my All Rounders and hence I’m doing less pressure ferments these days. But I always use a spunding valve and just leave it at 0 psi. This stops suck back during cold crashing.

Then for bottling, I put a few bottles in the freezer and I let the beer warm up a few degrees. This stops the foaming when filling them. I also use those little sachets of sugar for priming and I get good results.

If I do pressure ferment, I don’t bottle. Not because of foaming (the cold bottles help with that) but mostly because I never seem to get enough natural CO2 in the bottles and the beer is usually turns out to be too flat.

I also used to harvest the natural CO2 but just can’t be bothered these days!

 

[Bertie Doe]

Thanks for the bottle freezing tip. I can move stuff around in the cabinet freezer and there may may just enough room to fit 60 empties.
I'll follow Dave77's advice and keep spunding valvue open for first 3 days and then adjust up to 5 - 10 psi.
My next brew will be on Monday and it'll be my first ever Lager attempt. I'm probably running before I'm walking but I have no choice. My total stash is 6Kg of Pils and 3Kg of Munich.

Then for bottling, I put a few bottles in the freezer and I let the beer warm up a few degrees. This stops the foaming when filling them. I also use those little sachets of sugar for priming and I get good results