Bottle conditioning question and advice

[timtoos]

Hi all,

I have a questions about bottling my beers.

I have completed loads of kits and its strange but my first few kits were great - the rest have gone down hill. My AG brews - in cask - all are great but AG is now out till we move house with more room.

There seems to be this awful taste and smell - not sure what - but no matter what I can't seem to shift it. Before bottling this smell and taste is not present. (Is this just a typical kit home brew 'twang' or do I have a problem? To me the beers are undrinkable).

My first few brews were done in a primitive manner. I let them ferment in the room with no control. Since my house is very cold most of the time (apart from one the stove is in then its too warm) I decided to adopt some control. I use a STC controller to now measure the FV contents and this turns on an heater to maintain temperature. The temperature control fluctuates b down by say 0.4C so Im happy with that.

At Christmas 2014 I decided to do a few beers family and friends. I did 3 batches. One batch went into a corny - and still tastes fine. The others went into bottles to condition.

I added sugar into a bottling carboy and put the beer on top. I then bottled. (The bottles were cleaned internally and externally using VWP and then StarSan - so were the caps).

In order for carbonation I decided to place them on an heat pad with heat belt wrapped around (since the house is very very cold during the daytime) and set the temperature to about 21C I think it was. I did this the same on the 2 bottled brews. The STC temperature probe was attached to the body of a bottle in the middle of them all.
Now I don't know what temperature the bottom of the bottles climbed to as the probe was reading up the bottle so in order for the temperature setpoint to be achieved the heaters were on until the volume of beer was heated up on the controlling bottle.

Do you think this could have created the 'funky' awful taste and smell. Could this heating of the bottles (at their base where the yeast sat) have got to too hot and killed it and then it create this taste and smell?

PS, the bottles were sat on this heat for 2 weeks then removed and placed outside.
I have left them until now to see if they recover but to be fair they are awful and Im pouring them down the drain.

PS, the kits were a Festival Pilgrims Hope and Muntons Winter Warmer.

Can you guys please advise as Ive had loads of kits (say 5 now) where they are just wasted and I don't know where the issue is.

 

[clibit]

Not sure. I don't think I'd use a heater for conditioning though, that might be the cause. Try room temperature.

Comparing kits with AG brews may be exaggerating things too.

Is it the kit yeasts that you used? New yeast each time?

 

[Twostage]

How did you attach the STC probe to the bottles ?

It would need to be well insulated to ensure it was measuring the bottle temperature and not the air. I've used a variety of insulation methods such as multiple layers of tin foil and kitchen roll. I found that even leaving a small gap at the top where the probe went into the insulation resulted in low readings and you have to seal around the probe's cable.

You can carbonate bottles at surprisingly low temperatures, just takes longer. I'd say 21 was a bit high.

 

[MyQul]

What was the taste like? Dead yeast (autolysis) gives a meaty, marmitey off flavour. Having said that your bottles would had to be quite hot (60C) to kill the yeast. 48C is when you begin to severly injure it.

 

[MyQul]

You can carbonate bottles at surprisingly low temperatures, just takes longer. I'd say 21 was a bit high.

I've done the opposite to carbonate quickly and put bottles in my boiler cupboard which is in the mid to high twenties no problem

 

[timtoos]

Hi all, thanks for the responses.

I attached the probe to one bottle body and insulated it well in foil tape and insulation I use on mu AG vessels.

I don't know what the temperature on the pads went to but i reckon it could be well up in the 40C's - they are sat on a heat pad for 30 litre FVs - coupled with the brew belt wrapped round them the temperatures could be quite high indeed.

Is there any tests to carry out pre bottling? I always have a quick taste and it always seems ok pre bottle so it must be the bottling stages where Im struggling. I always bottle using a bottle wand for the carboy and in a non breezy environment.

I really fancy doing more kits but can't keep just throwing them down the drain...

 

[timtoos]

PS, I always use the kit used. I store them in the fridge and make a starter pre pitch. Also the yeast is always checked and in date.

 

[MyQul]

I don't know what the temperature on the pads went to but i reckon it could be well up in the 40C's - they are sat on a heat pad for 30 litre FVs - coupled with the brew belt wrapped round them the temperatures could be quite high indeed.

So if I'm reading you right you've got your bottles sat on a heat pad and a brew belt wrapped arround them?

I'm thinking that could be you problem right there. They must be getting really hot - probably hot enough to severely injure and possibly kill the yeast leading to off flavours

 

[timtoos]

Yes, you are reading right.

I was thinking this however just wanted that backed up by the knowledge from you guys.

Hows best to condition? Just sat somewhere and left?

 

[MyQul]

I just leave mine at room temp until I want to drink them but that's just me. Two weeks in the warm to carbonate then put them somewhere cold (like the fridge) to force the C02 back into the beer

 

[Cwrw666]

I put mine in the airing cupboard for a few days, a week at most. the temperature fluctuates quite a bit especially in summer but is generally warmer than room temperature. Then take them out and leave them in a back room which is quite cool, even in summer, and very cold in winter. Never had any problems with off tastes or poor carbonation.

 

[Twostage]

I've done the opposite to carbonate quickly and put bottles in my boiler cupboard which is in the mid to high twenties no problem

Sometimes it's about making your own rules