Bottling and Priming 3 questions please

Discussion in 'General Beer Discussion' started by Bertie Doe, Sep 12, 2018.

Help Support The Homebrew Forum UK by donating using the link above.
  1. Sep 13, 2018 #21

    davidfromUS

    davidfromUS

    davidfromUS

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    Detroit, MI
    It seems a matter of a person's perspective as to which method to use to prime their beer. If someone likes to prime each bottle, then that's great. If someone prefers batch priming, that's great too. The important thing is to know the pros and cons of each which are pretty well covered above.
    I have read from John Palmer (I've found his info on beer making reliable, here in the US at least) about batch priming from the primary or FV. You can check but he wrote to stir the priming solution gently in the FV and then let it sit for X amount of time for settling purposes. I'm not keen on waiting so I just transfer to a bottling bucket on top of the sugar solution.
    This transfer is the first time I open the beer after adding yeast, anyway, so I'm not too worried about exposure. For me it's three weeks in the FV, FG reading and then bottling bucket for batch priming. ***I am not recommending taking only one FG reading but it is what I do.***
    Pulling the beer off the trub or yeast cake still needs to be done gently/carefully whether it's into the bottling bucket or straight into the bottle. None of my vessels have taps so it's only been siphons for me. I do have to clean the siphon well but I am happy not to have to worry ever about spigot/tap cleanliness or leaking.
    I have a helper each time I bottle (using a siphon and bottling wand) so that is also something to consider.
     
    Bertie Doe likes this.
  2. Sep 13, 2018 #22

    lancon

    lancon

    lancon

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    12
    As regards Q3, the bottle should have, probbly bottom edge, the quantity held followed by another number then mm, so mine has 33cl 47mm, the second number is the distance from the top of the bottle which means 330 ml level, fill it to there (ish)
     
  3. Sep 13, 2018 #23

    Mavroz

    Mavroz

    Mavroz

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    27
    For a 500ml bottle I fill to just under the brim so no spillage.
    This way, removing the bottling want gives pretty much the same level as a commercial bottle.
     
  4. Sep 13, 2018 #24

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    East Cornwall
    I'm with you on that. I'm assuming if the levels in the fv bubble trap, remain stationary for say, 5 hours, then the activity has stopped ??
     
  5. Sep 13, 2018 #25

    lancon

    lancon

    lancon

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    12
    Mavroz, I forgot the bottling wand is the best thing for that, but only with pint/500ml bottles, not with 330ml, I think...
     
  6. Sep 13, 2018 #26

    Scottyburto

    Scottyburto

    Scottyburto

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2018
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    15
    Never trust a bubble trap!

    "Its a trap!"

    *(insert star wars meme)
     
  7. Sep 13, 2018 #27

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    East Cornwall
    Thanks I'll try that. It's clear from yours, mattns' and hopmaster's post that I'm leaving too big a gap at the top of the bottle.
    I'm beginning to hate these very dark bottles, particularly in the bathroom's dim lighting. However the new Handy Bottler gives me a free hand for one of those light LED torches - no more overflows :-)
     
  8. Sep 13, 2018 #28

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    East Cornwall
    Here's another thought on bottle priming with a syringe. Morrisons have an own brand Golden Syrup 750g in a squeezy bottle, on Special at £1.25p. At that price I bought 2 bottles. It's described as "Partially inverted refiners syrup" (who she?). I haven't tried it on my porridge yet but it has a hint of molasses / treakle about it.
    Typical values per 100g portion gives 81g sugar versus 100g per 100g with regular granulated, so you may need to increase a dose from say 3 ml to 5 ml but you'll prime 150 bottles from 750g.
    Can we assume that it was safely boiled prior to bottling in the factory?
     
  9. Sep 13, 2018 #29

    davidfromUS

    davidfromUS

    davidfromUS

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    Detroit, MI
    As already stated, do not trust the airlock (bubble trap), alone, for completion. It's too long to go into why in a single post but the info on this can be found here, I'm sure, and well worth checking out the "archives."
    I think it's safe to say you can use airlock activity as an indicator, meaning if it's bubbling violently, your beer is actively fermenting. That's pretty much what I rely on it for.
    I wouldn't recommend to anyone anything but the usual number of FG checks to ensure fermentation is complete. Personally, I like the idea of leaving the beer alone, away from the air. If I ever get bit for only doing one FG check, I will mention it.

    I'm trusting keeping the yeast within its temperature range the entire time, three weeks in the FV, seeing a good krausen rise and fall plus hitting the FG for what the recipe says. I have tight seals on my fermenting buckets so I do know when it really begins to chug away. I use a flashlight, barely touching the lid, to make sure there's a krausen and that it falls.
    Fortunately, I've never had a weak or stalled fermentation. I have had one or two that started slow but finished perfectly.
     
    Scottyburto and cushyno like this.
  10. Sep 14, 2018 #30

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    East Cornwall
    Fear of contamination is the reason I don't take a 2nd fg. If bubble activity ceases for 2 days, I take an hydrometer reading and take it again 2 days later, am I likely to see any change?

    Thanks for the info on 'krausen rise' I will def look it up in search archives.
     
  11. Sep 14, 2018 #31

    Mavroz

    Mavroz

    Mavroz

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    27
    Yes, possibly.
    Can you guarantee yourself your FV is a pressure vessel? Is it 100% leak tight? Is the seal around the blow off 100% leakproof?
    Only way to tell is taking readings over 2 or 3 days.
    If you are confident enough, skip this stage but you will risk blown bottles and maybe gushers when opening...
     
  12. Sep 14, 2018 #32

    davidfromUS

    davidfromUS

    davidfromUS

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    Detroit, MI
    You're welcome!
    Contamination is a thing to avoid but taking the appropriate steps is how that is addressed.
    Regarding your question, there's no clear answer. There is no magic number on timing the fermenting process, only a rule of thumb which, again, brings the hydrometer into the mix (and leaves the airlock out). Like I said, there is much information on airlocks/bubblers on this site.

    You can get the "big picture" by reading "How To Brew" by John Palmer on the internet but he's not the only good source.

    I settled on three weeks in the FV--I wanted to eliminate opening it but also be sure fermentation was complete. That amount could be too long, not long enough or any answer in between. But for me, it's ideal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  13. Sep 14, 2018 #33

    PhilM

    PhilM

    PhilM

    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    2
    Any tips on bottling after have 3-6 months in a second FV, should I consider anything special or just bottle as usual?
    // Phil
     
  14. Sep 16, 2018 #34

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    East Cornwall
    3 to 6 months Phil, is almost vintage. athumb.. I'd taste it, prime it and then bottle it in your usual way.
     
  15. Sep 16, 2018 #35

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    East Cornwall
    You may have a point Mavros. There's been no activity in my fm since Friday, I was convinced it had finished but it gave a friendly belch a few moments ago. I'll wait another 3 days take a reading and transfer to the secondary. Leave for say, 4 days and take a final sg just prior to bottling. No extra stages involved so shouldn't increase the risk of contamination.

    Any change in the 2 readings may be microscopic, just hope I can spot them on the hydrometer? Incidentally, I've just ordered a Vinometer from Ebay. There are dire warnings on Youtube about getting the tiny capillary bore blocked. Have any of you wine drinkers used them on beer? Direct from China at £1.83p inc shipping. It's called 'shipping' for good reason, the Chinese prefer shipping to air-mail ;) Prolly have to wait a month ...
     
    Mavroz likes this.
  16. Sep 16, 2018 #36

    Mavroz

    Mavroz

    Mavroz

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    27
    Learned my lesson with the cheap Chinese tat. Still trying to use a handheld digital thermometer on my last brew. It is as responsive as .... well God knows but it takes an age to tell you the right temperature and then I am beginning not to trust it...
    Only good things I have had recently from China are the filter bags which in fairness the one I am using has lasted through 5 brews so far with no rips or tears. That is a quick soak in boiling water then into the starsan.
     
  17. Sep 16, 2018 #37

    PhilM

    PhilM

    PhilM

    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    2
    Bertie, in some cases do you add aditional yeast when bottling aged beer. Or is this something I’ve dreamt??
     
  18. Sep 16, 2018 #38

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    East Cornwall
    Haven't heard of that one Phil, others may help out here. I've read on the forums that some largers (which may require long, cool conditioning) have extra yeast but this would be at the initial ferment stage and NOT at bottling.
     
    Mavroz likes this.
  19. Sep 16, 2018 #39

    Oneflewover

    Oneflewover

    Oneflewover

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    219
    Location:
    Dorsetshire
    I believe that if all the yeast had fallen out of suspension due to extended secondary you might need to reseed with fresh yeast
     
  20. Sep 16, 2018 #40

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Bertie Doe

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    East Cornwall
    Ah, thanks Oneflewover, I didn't know that. How would you check if yeast has fallen out of suspension?
     

Share This Page