Copper compatible cleaner required

[Granny]

Dear friends, I’m trying to find a cleaner for my brew plant which is compatible with stainless steel and copper. Primarily for the removal of beerstone and the usual wort deposits left inside valves and other other hiding places. I read that the PBW is compatible with both stainless and copper but don’t know a supplier. The other brands I read about are either not compatible with copper or they don’t specify. Can anyone help?

 

[An Ankoù]

Hi Granny,
The Malt Miller and others stock it:
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/five-star-pbw-cleaner-3-6kg-8lb/

They do another product, too, call Five Star B.S. Remover (the B.S. refers to beer stone). I got some and it didn't work, even full strength.

 

[Granny]

Thanks for that. My biggest concern is the compatibility with copper. It seems that a lot of these cleaners are too acidic for copper. I’m sure I read somewhere that the Five Star BS cleaner is not compatible. Other cleaners and their reviews seem to make a point of mentioning every material under the sun but avoid mentioning copper.

 

[An Ankoù]

Thanks for that. My biggest concern is the compatibility with copper. It seems that a lot of these cleaners are too acidic for copper. I’m sure I read somewhere that the Five Star BS cleaner is not compatible. Other cleaners and their reviews seem to make a point of mentioning every material under the sun but avoid mentioning copper.

I haven't done the research, but PBW claims to be a substitute for caustic soda based cleaners and as such it should be strongly alkaline. Yes, BS remover is acidic.

 

[Granny]

I’m sure there must be other home brewers out there who use copper in their set up as well. My copper is in the pipework, the chiller coil and the thermowells. Surely that’s quite common. What do other people use I wonder?

 

[Sadfield]

Acid cleaners aren't a big issue for cleaning copper and are only mildly corrosive, as is wort. Copper should be dull, rather than bright and shiny. The big one to avoid is Bleach based cleaners.

For Beerstone, the most effective advise I've found is from Randy Mosher. Use an acid based cleaner, followed by a non caustic alkaline cleaner, with no rinse in between. I use, used Starsan and unscented Oxyclean (sodium Percarbonate).

 

[Granny]

That’s fab, thank you. What StarSan product is it exactly and where do I get the unscented Oxyclean? I’m a bit new to this, sorry!

 

[Sadfield]

That’s fab, thank you. What StarSan product is it exactly and where do I get the unscented Oxyclean? I’m a bit new to this, sorry!

No worries.

Star San is a Fivestar product that many of us use, and is branded as a no rinse sanitiser. It's main ingredient is Phosphoric Acid. I save some of the used solution from sanitising for cleaning the kit at a later date.

The Oxy can be bought at Poundstretcher, Amazon and B&Ms.

https://www.poundstretcher.co.uk/wizz-oxi-powder-500g-25-free

 

[Granny]

Oh right the Star San sanitiser?! I have some of that. I didn’t know that cleans away beerstone. So you use it in the same concentration as for sanitising and that is effective? What exactly does the Oxyclean do?

 

[Sadfield]

The Oxycleaner will help remove organic (protein) deposits, the acid cleaner, inorganic mineral deposits.

Beer stone is caused by a reaction of Amino Acids with minerals in water, so a mixture of organic and inorganic. And why it's a stubborn bugger to remove.

 

[Granny]

Brilliant advise Sadfield and I’m off to poundstretcher! Massive thumbs up as this looks like it’s going to save me a few quid too

One last thing, would you use the oxy cleaner first then the sanitiser?

 

[Sadfield]

If specifically trying to remove Beerstone from your kit. Sanitiser followed by oxy. Drain out the sanitiser, but don't rinse before cleaning with the Oxy. Then rinse.

For general cleaning and sanitising of FVs etc. Oxy first, rinse then sanitise.

 

[Granny]

I’ve just bought the Wizz obi powder from Pound Stretcher, got it home and it smells quite fragrant. It is the same as the one in your link and the only one they had there. Have I got the right one? Does yours smell like this?

 

[Granny]

*Typo alert! Oxi powder, not obi powder!

 

[Sadfield]

Yep, fine. It's the more expensive brands like vanish that are heavily perfumed I think.

 

[Granny]

Brilliant, you’re a star Sadfield. Many thanks for your help today.

 

[An Ankoù]

Just to add a bit of fun to this thread and out of a sense of sheer badness, I'd be more worried about galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals in the presence of an electrolyte even though phosphoric acid is relatively weak. Don't soak for ages and keep an eye open for discolouration.

 

[Granny]

That’s good advice, thank you. You’re not being bad by offering advice. It is greatly appreciated. I plan on doing a very quick application and rinse with this stuff after every brew. That way I shouldn’t ever need to go for the big soak. Does that sound about right?