Fermenting under pressure

[chillipickle]

The past couple of neipa brews i have done, i let the pressure rise to 4 psi before dry hopping on second day.Kept 4psi until second dry hop day 5 then let it rise to 8>10psi.
To be honest, there really was not much of a difference in taste when fermenting at 8 to 10 psi from the start.
Using verdant ipa.
My local brewery use huge stainless conical fermenters that are probably 10ft tall, every 2ft ish puts the beer under 1 psi, honestly should we be worrying about psi under 10?
I purely use pressure to keep o2 out of the brew.

 

[dan125]

I am doing a Bitter tomorrow so I will wait till fermentation has almost stopped before I add pressure and probably let it rise to 10 psi.

My advice would be to read as much as possible - including opposing views on this thread, and the likes of Janish, Strong and Bamforth - pick out the bits that seem relevant to your brewing set-up and tastes - try them out for yourself - then persue the bits that seem to make a difference and discard the bits that don't.

 

[Leon103]

Have you used this method for any English ale yeasts?

I do the same as Dan and done this with cml Midland in my latest porter

 

[foxy]

Most ester production is done in the yeast growth phase, which I think often is complete after the first 3-4 days.




It's semantics isn't it? Some would argue unless you make a lager with lager yeast then it's not lager, and others that if you can make a beer that approximates a lager by other means then you can call it lager because it drinks like one.

I'm not here to argue what's right or wrong but when people say they can make a lager in 10 days fermenting under pressure they typically mean the latter.

Doesn't come close to drinking like a lager, make a lager in the traditional way and make a lager in a pressure vessel and higher temperature, taste is more like a commercial kolsch than a lager. Would be like me making a blue vein cheese and calling it Stilton. I don't mind people making a pseudo lager as long as they don't call it a lager.

 

[Leon103]

Doesn't come close to drinking like a lager, make a lager in the traditional way and make a lager in a pressure vessel and higher temperature, taste is more like a commercial kolsch than a lager. Would be like me making a blue vein cheese and calling it Stilton. I don't mind people making a pseudo lager as long as they don't call it a lager.

I pressure ferment my lagers at lager temps. Tastes like lager.

 

[foxy]

I pressure ferment my lagers at lager temps. Tastes like lager.

Nothing much wrong with that, if you read my post again, I stipulated higher temperatures Some breweries will use the captured co2 by capping the venting gas towards the end of fermentation. Others won't use the fermentation co2 because of all the volatiles which would be normally taken out with the venting gas. Some breweries will capture, filter scrub and dry the gas before reusing.

My local brewery use huge stainless conical fermenters that are probably 10ft tall, every 2ft ish puts the beer under 1 psi, honestly should we be worrying about psi under 10?
I purely use pressure to keep o2 out of the brew.

I explained earlier, hydrostatic pressure is a hell of a lot different from top pressure. Even though your local brewery has 10 foot high tanks the co2 is being released, not forced back into the solution which is what top pressure does.

Without using pressure fermentation I transfer into a secondary using oxygen free transfer. But I will not claim for one minute that the secondary vessel which has been purged throughout the fermentation, that it is completely oxygen free. Even though there has been enough gas going through the vessel to purge it, that gas wasn't under enough pressure to completely purge the secondary from oxygen. On a home brew scale we can only do so much, I have never had an oxidised bottle of beer unless it has been in the bottle a couple of years. After which the oxidation, (sherry like flavour) is one of the flavours to be looking for.

 

[Braufather]

I have a king keg junior arriving tomorrow and was keen to try out fermenting under pressure purely because I now can.

i see this as an interesting additional option as I could just use it to dry hop as a secondry, or if used as a regular fermenter , it still means I can cold crash without worrying about oxygen. And the main reason for getting it is that however I use it, closed transfers are now possible and simple

Not to sure how to dry hop though , without compromising the closed nature of it. so I might just chuck loads in a hop stand instead first time I use it.

Question I have is if you don’t use the spunding valve how does co2 escape? Can you set the psi to 0 or 1 or will that still have an impact?

 

[DocAnna]

I have a king keg junior arriving tomorrow and was keen to try out fermenting under pressure purely because I now can.

i see this as an interesting additional option as I could just use it to dry hop as a secondry, or if used as a regular fermenter , it still means I can cold crash without worrying about oxygen. And the main reason for getting it is that however I use it, closed transfers are now possible and simple

Not to sure how to dry hop though , without compromising the closed nature of it. so I might just chuck loads in a hop stand instead first time I use it.

Question I have is if you don’t use the spunding valve how does co2 escape? Can you set the psi to 0 or 1 or will that still have an impact?

You will need some form of spunding valve or a low pressure prv which is an option to set and forget:
https://brew2bottle.co.uk/products/keg-king-10psi-blue-prvhttps://brew2bottle.co.uk/products/keg-king-15psi-purple-prv
Spunding valves vary from the not that expensive to the shiny daft expensive ones, which are described here:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/newbie-help-with-my-snub-nose.92202/post-998502
Personally if the low pressure PRVs had been available last year I'd have seriously considered them, and even now I'm wondering about them as an option to have for brewing in a cornie. I think the idea is you leave the PRV open for the first few days 3-5 then close it to carbonate the beer after dry hopping.

Anna

 

[roboto]

I

You will need some form of spunding valve or a low pressure prv which is an option to set and forget:
https://brew2bottle.co.uk/products/keg-king-10psi-blue-prvhttps://brew2bottle.co.uk/products/keg-king-15psi-purple-prv
Spunding valves vary from the not that expensive to the shiny daft expensive ones, which are described here:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/newbie-help-with-my-snub-nose.92202/post-998502
Personally if the low pressure PRVs had been available last year I'd have seriously considered them, and even now I'm wondering about them as an option to have for brewing in a cornie. I think the idea is you leave the PRV open for the first few days 3-5 then close it to carbonate the beer after dry hopping.

Anna

I saw the blue and purple PRVs and wondered if they were any good. Has anyone actually tried them?

£30 for a blowtie isn't bad, but cheaper is cheaper...

 

[Braufather]

I've got a bow tie spunding valve coming with it, don't know how it works but leaving it open for first few days then maybe set it at 10psi, but at 19c that's not going to carbonate it much but at after cold crashing I can transfer to a corny and top up.

I like the sound of purging that corny with co2 from fermentation. if its hassle free that is.

 

[phildo79]

£30 for a blowtie isn't bad, but cheaper is cheaper...

I got my blow-tie for less than £15. I had to wait a couple of weeks for it to arrive from China but so far, so good.

 

[Braufather]

paid 30 for mine but will be here in two days!

 

[phildo79]

I like the sound of purging that corny with co2 from fermentation. if its hassle free that is.

I tried this as someone stated that a pressure FV has the capacity to purge 5 corny kegs. Well, that must be with a very large FV and pressurised to the advised limit. My FV was 35L and was sitting at 25 PSI. I purged one keg and the PSI dropped to 10. I would not have been able to purge a second keg.

 

[Braufather]

one keg would do from one fermentation though wouldn't it? unless you were looking to dry hop then move to a second keg?

 

[RGeats]

I tried this as someone stated that a pressure FV has the capacity to purge 5 corny kegs. Well, that must be with a very large FV and pressurised to the advised limit. My FV was 35L and was sitting at 25 PSI. I purged one keg and the PSI dropped to 10. I would not have been able to purge a second keg.

You can purge during active fermentation. Connect a gas line from the FV to the beer line of the corny, and use the CO2 produced during fermentation to continuously purge the keg.

 

[Braufather]

You can purge during active fermentation. Connect a gas line from the FV to the beer line of the corny, and use the CO2 produced during fermentation to continuously purge the keg.

so does the spunding valve then go on the second keg then, and the gas out post of junior king keg to liquid post of serving keg

 

[phildo79]

You can purge during active fermentation. Connect a gas line from the FV to the beer line of the corny, and use the CO2 produced during fermentation to continuously purge the keg.

Would you not need to let the pressure build first?

 

[RGeats]

so does the spunding valve then go on the second keg then, and the gas out post of junior king keg to liquid post of serving keg

Yes sorry should have mentioned that. Set the spunding valve to whatever pressure you want for the FV. There is also a benefit that when you come to cold crash. You see a lower drop in pressure as you have the volume of CO2 in the corny acting as a reservoir.

 

[RGeats]

Would you not need to let the pressure build first?

No you don't, you can set it from the start no problems.

 

[Braufather]

Yes sorry should have mentioned that. Set the spunding valve to whatever pressure you want for the FV. There is also a benefit that when you come to cold crash. You see a lower drop in pressure as you have the volume of CO2 in the corny acting as a reservoir.

wouldn't you disconnect to do the cold crash?