Low alcohol beer and how to brew advise required (Diabetes)

[RoomWithABrew]

Bone dry in two days.
Nice to have a brew to mess with. Sprinkled 1kg on sugar in it. The yeast burst into life in about 3seconds quite a surprise. Foamed over again

I will do it again tomorrow and video it. Quite bizarre.

Not bizarre, the beer has gas in it and the sugar when added provides lots of nucleation sites for CO2 to be released.
Much like the mintoe in a coke bottle fountain or the etching in the bottom of some glasses.
Check the gravity has fallen before adding more sugar, better to drip feed your chaptalisation than bulk feed.

 

[MashBag]

"nucleation" good point. Hadn't thought of that. But it's going again like a train.

I was always believed sugar should be thoroughly dissolved. Myth busted.

Did the brix when I started. I know it will take 1.5kg easily. High % fermentation does benefit from later additions rather than a syrup start. 50g of bread Yeast does have a certain hungar

I have a feeling the hydrometer might smash on the bottom of the kettle

 

[YeastFace]

Some of Fermentis' new yeast and enzyme blends will help this.

LD-20 is a dried lager yeast and glucoamylase enzyme in a single pack. Aimed at producing low carb lagers (may wait until this comes up before I do something like Asahi Dry)

DA-16 is a dried ale yeast and glucoamylase enzyme in a single pack. Aimed at producing Brut IPA.

I know I could buy the enzymes separately but this seems a bit easier.

 

[MashBag]

Well I have just washed up, fermentation done. Bone dry.
That's it for messing around.

Serious stuff now. Next up is house ale as per, but with beano.

 

[MashBag]

Well it's no as dry as I thought, it's foamed over in the freezer. What a mess.

It seems galactosidase slows right down, but keeps releasing fermentables.. Which the yeast take advantage of. Bugger of a mess.

Bit of a risk for bottling you could easily create bottle bombs or at very least gushers.

 

[stubrewworx]

Smoked Beer​

Classic Style Smoked Beer
5.0% / 12 °P
All Grain

TMM (FIK)​

75% efficiency
Batch Volume: 8.5 L
Boil Time: 30 min
Mash Water: 10.78 L
Total Water: 10.78 L
Boil Volume: 9.75 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.044

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.048
Final Gravity: 1.010
IBU (Tinseth): 16
BU/GU: 0.33
Colour: 25.5 EBC

Mash​

Strike Temp — 70.1 °C
Temperature — 67 °C — 45 min

Malts (1.775 kg)​

1 kg (56.3%) — Weyermann Smoked Malt — Grain — 5 EBC
500 g (28.2%) — Crisp Best Ale Malt — Grain — 5.5 EBC
150 g (8.5%) — Thomas Fawcett Crystal Malt — Grain — 130 EBC
100 g (5.6%) — Crisp Torrefied Wheat — Grain — 5 EBC
25 g (1.4%) — Crisp Black Malt — Grain — 1300 EBC — Mash — 10 min

Hops (10 g)​

10 g (16 IBU) — Hallertau Magnum (Whole) 11.1% — Boil — 15 min

Miscs​

2 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
0.25 g — Sodium Metabisulfite (Na2S2O5) — Mash

Yeast​

1 pkg — CML Voss No.1 Kveik 80%

Fermentation​

Primary — 33 °C — 14 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile​

Ca2+
141Mg2+
10Na+
23Cl-
118SO42-
135HCO3-
96

 

[RoomWithABrew]

There's 160 calories per pint just from the alcohol in the smoked beer, that's the same as in a snack size mars bar ( smaller than standard mars bar but bigger than funsize).
But also nearly 15 g of sugar due to the unfermented residual gravity of 1.010 so another 60 calories there.
Total about 220 calories per pint and the standard mars bar is 226 calories.

I think boil off the alcohol is the only way to make this a low calorie beer!

 

[peebee]

... I think boil off the alcohol is the only way to make this a low calorie beer!

There should be a way? Because boiling isn't a way! Or not as I've been told.

Something about water and alcohol refusing to let go of each other's hand when it gets to a certain level? Something to do with Physics ... I'm surprised I can even spell it ("fizzikz" ... that's better). Note they don't use that technique commercially.


Anyway, boiling probably doesn't make for nice beer. And while you are being "diplomatic", I think @stubrewworx didn't read the thread's subject before posting!



Are you enjoying the cold in your neck-of-the-woods? (Southern Hemisphere). It's getting nice and warm back here (when it isn't flippin' raining).

 

[Buffers brewery]

I think it's been said earlier in this thread, diabetics don't need low alcohol beers as it's the liver that metabolises alcohol not the pancreas. The main reason diabetics watch calories is to keep their weight under control. Diabetics need to control their carb intake not calories. I've given up looking for low alcohol beers. They all taste neah! My conclusion....if it's low or no alcohol it's not beer.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

There should be a way? Because boiling isn't a way! Or not as I've been told.

Something about water and alcohol refusing to let go of each other's hand when it gets to a certain level? Something to do with Physics ... I'm surprised I can even spell it ("fizzikz" ... that's better). Note they don't use that technique commercially.

Are you enjoying the cold in your neck-of-the-woods? (Southern Hemisphere). It's getting nice and warm back here (when it isn't flippin' raining).

Last time I checked the laws of physics hadn't changed and alcohol boils at a lower temperature than water when both under the same pressure.
I never mentioned boiling the beer, just the alcohol.
The best way to do this is under low pressure and then the product isn't cooked whilst the alcohol is removed.
I believe they call this low pressure distillation and it is used commercially but you can look this up rather than be told.

Regarding the weather pretty good up to 16C and the tomatoes are still flowering and the grass was cut the other day so not too bad.

For your info https://www.centec.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Articles/Dealcoholization_for_Wellbeing.pdf

 

[MashBag]

Would it also benefit from a gentle boil, to about off flavours from a mallard effect?

 

[dtashmore]

I think it's been said earlier in this thread, diabetics don't need low alcohol beers as it's the liver that metabolises alcohol not the pancreas. The main reason diabetics watch calories is to keep their weight under control. Diabetics need to control their carb intake not calories. I've given up looking for low alcohol beers. They all taste neah! My conclusion....if it's low or no alcohol it's not beer.

I fully agree with this, as a diabetic I find my blood sugar levels are better after a few ales the afternoon before though I'm not sure why this is.
on the subject of boiling off the alcohol you have to get the ale to quite near boiling point depending on the pressure and percentage of alcohol in the brew, I live at 1500 mts and it still has to reach 84 degrees before the alcohol starts to flow and it may be tricky to get a partial vacuum.

 

[MashBag]

Last time I checked the laws of physics hadn't changed and alcohol boils at a lower temperature than water when both under the same pressure.
I never mentioned boiling the beer, just the alcohol.
The best way to do this is under low pressure and then the product isn't cooked whilst the alcohol is removed.
I believe they call this low pressure distillation and it is used commercially but you can look this up rather than be told.

Regarding the weather pretty good up to 16C and the tomatoes are still flowering and the grass was cut the other day so not too bad.

For your info https://www.centec.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Articles/Dealcoholization_for_Wellbeing.pdf

That's an interesting read. I do wonder if you could do a similar thing in a freezer.

With a 10% airgap and a loose lid, freeze a pet bottle of beer for a couple of days.

The alc won't freeze. So remove from the freezer and pour the alc off. Thaw completely and then recarbonate with a Carbonation Cap.

Might give this a go.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Alcohol is still calories, if you have Type II diabetes which is more likely if you are overweight then getting your weight back to normal or low will be beneficial on your sugar control. A beer belly doesn't occur because of the small amount of sugar in the beer!
Of note the percentage of alcohol in the beer does not affect the boiling point of the alcohol contained therin. Absolute pressure will affect the boiling points.
The rate of alcohol loss will increase the more the temperature rises, there will be alcohol loss at lower temperatures, which you note when smelling the alcohol in a glass or see when wiping a surface down with ethyl alcohol.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

That's an interesting read. I do wonder if you could do a similar thing in a freezer.

With a 10% airgap and a loose lid, freeze a pet bottle of beer for a couple of days.

The alc won't freeze. So remove from the freezer and pour the alc off. Thaw completely and then recarbonate with a Carbonation Cap.

Might give this a go.

You will extract more volatiles in the " enriched " less frozen portion. Freeze distillation for an Eisbock apparently the frozen portion tastes pretty ghastly.
I'd leave more than 10% air gap there's a gas factor coming out of solution that complicates matters, ideally manipulate the ice block towards the bottle base when inverted to let the liquid portion trickle down ( with the lid closed ) then tilt, let the gas out and then pour off the alcohol portion. Defrost and carbonate. Good luck await your report.

 

[MashBag]

Eisbock was the basis for the idea. Why not leave the lid loose so the gas escapes?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Eisbock was the basis for the idea. Why not leave the lid loose so the gas escapes?

I suppose because air causes oxidation, so minimising that.

 

[peebee]

Last time I checked the laws of physics hadn't changed and alcohol boils at a lower temperature than water when both under the same pressure.
I never mentioned boiling the beer, just the alcohol.
The best way to do this is under low pressure and then the product isn't cooked whilst the alcohol is removed.
I believe they call this low pressure distillation and it is used commercially but you can look this up rather than be told.

Regarding the weather pretty good up to 16C and the tomatoes are still flowering and the grass was cut the other day so not too bad.

For your info https://www.centec.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Articles/Dealcoholization_for_Wellbeing.pdf

Ah, you've forced me to do the footwork, I'll remember that! But I think I've found something?

"Azeotrope" ... that's the word I think I needed. But long before that I think boiling the alcohol off becomes a case of "deminishing returns", so it just isn't practical.

This from https://www.extension.purdue.edu/ex...onal" distillation is used to,boils at 212° F.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I think the knack is to raise the temperature enough to have a greater rate of alcohol loss than water loss, trouble is other volatiles such as hop aroma etc will also be lost.
Getting the alcohol out a high alcohol beer is the only way to reduce the calories in the glass.
Low alcohol beer production is easy, making it taste acceptable seems to be the unicorn.

 

[peebee]

I guess anyone with diabetes had best avoid drinking petrol too?

(I don't think I have I have to declare whether I believe in the capacity of alcohol to make you fat either).

I like the Aussie response to this argument - one of you is wrong, but we don't know who - https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/Alcohol-and-weight-gain