Making a Big No-Chill Yeast Starter

[morethanworts]

I thought I'd post this to show a method that I've used to make a big starter for high gravity beers. It has to be said that there is nothing wrong with the usual method of mixing DME in a pan, boiling for 10 or 15 mins, cooling in an ice bath and pitching. But having 'sterile' wort ['sterile' as much as boiling allows], ready to pitch at room temperature, first thing on the morning of the day I am to make the starter, makes things easier in my house, even though I've had to do some preparation earlier. It would also take longer, and more ice, to cool down 3L of wort as opposed to the one or two pints often used for a first step, or the only step in lower gravity beers. So I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here, I just find this schedule works quite well for me, with the equipment I've got to hand.

I need a 3L starter to step up the 500ml starter that's already fermented and chilled clear in the fridge. I boil three one-litre Kilner jars in one pan for 15 mins, lids in the other:

In another pan, I mix 3L of luke warm water with 300g DME. I did check the SG of this once it was dissolved, to be around 1.040. This is boiled for 15 mins, lid on, to save excessive evaporation and as extra help to sterilise the whole pan.

The three jars are removed with tongs, and very promptly filled with barely-off-the-boil wort from the pan, via a sanitised funnel.

The lids are promptly secured and the jars placed on a cooling rack. I learned very quickly on another occasion NOT to cool the hot jars in ice. They can take hot wort (and even jam), but cannot take the temperature difference created by having ice water on the outside; you need borosilicate glass or the like, for that! The lids pop inwards as the wort cools, confirming a good seal. Once cooled, I store them in the fridge.

The night before use, I take everything out of the fridge to come up to room temperature. On the day I want to step up the starter, I simply pour off most of the excess 'beer' from the first step, quickly checking its gravity (was 1.008 with this batch), checking for any off taste, before swishing the yeast around in the remaining liquid and transferring to a sanitised DJ via a funnel.

The three jars are carefully opened and each poured into the DJ. Some break material has formed from the short boil. I just pour that in too - I've heard it's good for the yeast! This is Trappist High Gravity WY 3787 here, which experience has shown to be a massive oozer. Suitable precautions are taken, after giving the DJ a damn good shake and fitting a bung.

All tucked away in the fermentation fridge at around 21-22C. Brew day awaits!

 

[morethanworts]

Sorry - maybe I should have posted this in the How-To section, though it's only my way of doing things...

 

[Good Ed]

I'm a bit confused by your method. I make starters up to 4.5L and after boiling the wort for 15mins it usually takes about a couple of hours to cool sitting in a bowl of cold water that is refreshed a few times.

 

[morethanworts]

I'd be uncomfortable with 2 hours, if it's not in a totally airtight vessel, and I'd want to get some ice involved. That said, I'd accept that there is more overall handling involved in the way above. It was just to show one other way of doing things, really.

To explain a bit more: this is only a stop gap way, at best. If I had a 5L conical, I would do the whole job all in that, probably from boil to stir plate, though trying to swish it around in ice water with 3L in it would be a bit harder than a litre or so. After a conical, the next preferable thing for me to use for a starter is a DJ, though mine won't seem to take a stir bar (too domed a base) so I have to shake it. I really want to be shaking it at least every hour over the biggest 'window' of opportunity possible. My way, I can get the starter going in a matter of minutes at the start of a day, and return to it as frequently as possible until I go to bed.

I never even have to stick a thermometer in it to check it's at pitching temperature :sealed safely in the Kilner jars, I just let it stand for ages beforehand to get sure the temperatures are all matching OK.

It feels the cleanest way of working to me with what I have right now, but I'm always learning!

 

[Dr Mike]

A word of warning.

Boiling wort does not fully sterilise it. The one nasty which can survive are spores of Clostridium Botulinum. In our beer this is not a problem as, once fermentation is underway, it quickly becomes too acidic for these to activate, but if unfermented wort is stored for a length of time there is a risk that they can activate and grow which produces some very nasty toxins. You're probably OK for a week or two in the fridge but if you want to store unfermented wort for longer you really need to sterilise (ie autoclave) it.

I'm not 100% sure the extent to which this is an actual vs theoretical risk but it really isn't something you want to take any chances with.

 

[morethanworts]

Thanks Dr Mike. It was something I was aware of from the general no chill debate. I tend to think that if Botulism was a serious risk around the kitchen, then we'd all be doomed. That said, I'm only refrigerating these jars for a day or two.

 

[Dr Mike]

Although it doesn't get the same press attention as Salmonella, E Coli etc, it is the main concern of anyone producing food meant to have a long shelf life.

In the home, it's usually a non-issue as any food we prepare which was susceptible to it would be spoiled by other bacteria before Botulinum ever took hold. It becomes an issue when someone does an incomplete job of sterilising something for long term storage. The food would look and taste fine but could be deadly.

 

[Good Ed]

I'd be uncomfortable with 2 hours, if it's not in a totally airtight vessel, and I'd want to get some ice involved. That said, I'd accept that there is more overall handling involved in the way above. It was just to show one other way of doing things, really.

I appreciate your method, I've never had any issues cooling in a bowl of water and I cover the pan with the wort with silver foil. I don't see how this situation is any different to when you are making beer and cooling after boil is complete. With my set up cooling and transfer to the FV can take an hour, and more when steeping hops, all the time the wort is exposed until sealed up in the FV.

 

[morethanworts]

I'd be uncomfortable with 2 hours, if it's not in a totally airtight vessel, and I'd want to get some ice involved. That said, I'd accept that there is more overall handling involved in the way above. It was just to show one other way of doing things, really.

I appreciate your method, I've never had any issues cooling in a bowl of water and I cover the pan with the wort with silver foil. I don't see how this situation is any different to when you are making beer and cooling after boil is complete. With my set up cooling and transfer to the FV can take an hour, and more when steeping hops, all the time the wort is exposed until sealed up in the FV.

Sounds like we're each doing things successfully our own way, with the stuff we've got. :thumb:

My main wort chills in around 20-25 mins to 18C, with the immersion chiller I use, and (now that I've fitted a tap to one of the two pots in which I boil) transfer to the FV has been complete within around 15 mins. Once it's below mid-20s-Centigrade, I think it's past the worst stage for nasties growing quickly. The starter is restarted with a little cooled wort from the early part of the boil in the meantime, and the whole thing gets going rapidly - so far - though I'm only on AG5 this weekend! So boil to pitching time is well under 2 hours and I feel that I should be even more careful with starters, as they're a brilliant opportunity to grow nasties.

PS - I take the point about steeping hops, which would extend this a bit. Hopefully, the hop oils already in the main wort may offer a small amount of protection (?)

 

[Good Ed]

I agree, it's a matter of being as thorough as possible, good luck with your next brew

 

[brewtim]

Morethan - great to see someone else's processes, you can always get ideas from these sorts of things. I find that a 2L flask will fit into a pan and slow running water surrounding the flask will cool it down within 30-45 mins giving it a swirl every few mins. The same works for a DJ with 3 litres in it, just takes a bit longer, I always pitch into a starter once the wort has cooled.

Dr Mike - is it possible for unfermented wort taken directly from a brewday boil then stored in the freezer for an extended period of time (months) to still suffer with the bacteria you mention?

 

[morethanworts]

I find that a 2L flask will fit into a pan and slow running water surrounding the flask will cool it down within 30-45 mins giving it a swirl every few mins. The same works for a DJ with 3 litres in it, just takes a bit longer, I always pitch into a starter once the wort has cooled.

:thumb:

You put hot wort into a DJ?

 

[brewtim]

I find that a 2L flask will fit into a pan and slow running water surrounding the flask will cool it down within 30-45 mins giving it a swirl every few mins. The same works for a DJ with 3 litres in it, just takes a bit longer, I always pitch into a starter once the wort has cooled.

:thumb:

You put hot wort into a DJ?

Err yes, it's a 5L Schott Duran piece of glass (better than borosilicate...apparently), I boil in it, plunge it into cold water no problems, looks like this Schott Duran 5000ml bottle, now I know how much it cost I'll be taking alot more care of it (I got it in a job lot of stuff), works well on a stirplate too.

:thumb:

 

[morethanworts]

Looks great.... Not your usual DJ at all!

I will invest in a 5L flask at some point I guess. I haven't even put my 2L one directly onto the gas yet, though I understand you can. Sort of feels wrong and I imagine becomes very hot to handle at the end. I've poured the boiling wort into it from a pan up to now.

 

[brewtim]

I haven't even put my 2L one directly onto the gas yet, though I understand you can. Sort of feels wrong and I imagine becomes very hot to handle at the end.

Go for it, I boil in them all the time and then plunge into cold water, I've cracked flasks through my own clumsiness, knocking them on something, not through direct heating or rapid cooling yet (someone is sure to tell tales of cracked Erlenmeyer's through hot and cold though)!

As long as it's borosilicate and cost enough then its designed for heat and cold.

 

[Dr Mike]

Dr Mike - is it possible for unfermented wort taken directly from a brewday boil then stored in the freezer for an extended period of time (months) to still suffer with the bacteria you mention?

I'm not 100% confident but fairly sure the spores would not re activate in frozen wort, so if you freeze fresh from the boiler and thaw just before using it should be fine.