Mangrove Jack's Saison Hop Swap.

[Little Rock Brewing]

Just put on a MJ Belgian Saison kit. Used 1.2kg of LME instead of the 600g they recommend but brewed long to 23l to compensate. OG 1.052.
20g of Styrian Golding hops are supplied for dry hopping but I was thinking of swapping for something else as a bit of a kit tweak.
Any recommendations of a good alternative and what flavour it could bring to the party?

Note- Edited as it's not Saaz hops supplied!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'm not sure why you'd want to - if you want to explore hops then buy a pale ale kit. Yeast are the stars of modern saisons, just enjoy what yeast brings to the party.

 

[dmtaylor]

I'm not sure why you'd want to - if you want to explore hops then buy a pale ale kit. Yeast are the stars of modern saisons, just enjoy what yeast brings to the party.

Tell that to my fellow Yanks! Though personally I tend to agree with you.

I think Sorachi Ace could work great in a saison (this would add the flavor of dill).

Or how about Brewers Gold or Cluster? Something a little different could work well in this style.

I wouldn't go C hop here (I'm looking at you, Citra! and Simcoe and Mosaic), these have been so extremely overdone everywhere, and at that point is not a saison anymore if you ask me.

But yeah. Within reason, you can play around if you want, IMHO.

Cheers all.

 

[Hoagie]

I’ve brewed a lot of all grain saisons with NZ hops. No idea why but they work so well but I suspect there’s something with the yeast interacting with those particular hop types.

I’ve used similar hop bills with pale ales and they were boring, just didn’t work. Use them with a saison yeast (and my go to would be MJ for saisons) and they’re some of the best I’ve made. I’d suggest 60-100g of dry hops using motueka, rakau, wai-iti or a combination of them.

it’s not going to make it an ipa or anything. It’ll still be a saison, just with a tropical fruity hop aroma to compliment the saison yeasts character. I’d say go for it.

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

I'm not sure why you'd want to - if you want to explore hops then buy a pale ale kit. Yeast are the stars of modern saisons, just enjoy what yeast brings to the party.

I hear what you're saying. I'm not trying to turn it into an American IPA style. I'm already going through that style in AG and various hops.
I guess I'm trying to add an interesting subtle fruity note, but not citrus, without adding actual fruit.
It's the Styrian Goldings flavour description of "earthy and resinous" that doesn't particularly excite me.

I'll check out the NZ hops Hoagie, got 10 days or so before dry hopping.

Also like the sound of Brewers Gold, dmtaylor, "blackcurrant and spice" sounds great.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

My vote would go for NZ wai-iti... just wish I could get them at a reasonable price as whole hops

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Hmmm, wai-iti sounds interesting. But what does stone fruit taste like?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Hmmm, wai-iti sounds interesting. But what does stone fruit taste like?

I think they mean peach/apricot - plus a bit of lime, I'd say

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

see Wai-Iti Hops - anybody used them?

 

[samale]

Sorachi ace, hallertau Blanc and lemon drop work really well.

 

[samale]

Your list is endless if I am honest. I think the key is to add enough hops that it plays well with the yeast without overpowering.
Citra and mosiac can also work well in small quantities

 

[Hoagie]

I hear what you're saying. I'm not trying to turn it into an American IPA style. I'm already going through that style in AG and various hops.
I guess I'm trying to add an interesting subtle fruity note, but not citrus, without adding actual fruit.
It's the Styrian Goldings flavour description of "earthy and resinous" that doesn't particularly excite me.

I'll check out the NZ hops Hoagie, got 10 days or so before dry hopping.

Also like the sound of Brewers Gold, dmtaylor, "blackcurrant and spice" sounds great.

Good luck. As I say, it’s just nz hops with that yeast I’ve found just works. Google says;
“New Zealand hops are also unique in their chemical composition, which is partly down to the New Zealand terroir, meaning that the individual essential oil and alpha acid composition cannot be replicated elsewhere in the world.”
So not saying they’re better than other hops and it’s hard to argue US hops aren’t going to be first choice for IPAs but there’s something about nz hops that seems to work with certain yeasts, this being one.

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Thanks for all the replies and advice.
I've decided to split the saison into 2 batches for dry hopping.
One with Wai-iti and the other with Brewers Gold.
Also this is going to be a low carbohydrate, keto friendly brew using the enzyme alpha galactosidase.
This enzyme, apparently, breaks down the complex sugars into fermentable ones giving a lower carb content and more alcohol.
Win win!

 

[Hoagie]

Thanks for all the replies and advice.
I've decided to split the saison into 2 batches for dry hopping.
One with Wai-iti and the other with Brewers Gold.
Also this is going to be a low carbohydrate, keto friendly brew using the enzyme alpha galactosidase.
This enzyme, apparently, breaks down the complex sugars into fermentable ones giving a lower carb content and more alcohol.
Win win!

The saison yeast probably get you down to 1.003 without the enzyme. Hope it goes well!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Really looking forward to the results on this - have you considered setting up a 'brew day' thread?

 

[Nicks90]

With the enzyme and a saison yeast, it will be super dooper dry!
Will this 'dryness' impact the flavour profile of the hops and change apparent bitterness?

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Really looking forward to the results on this - have you considered setting up a 'brew day' thread?

I consider myself too new to this to start a brew day thread. But having just been to a beer festival and been thoroughly disappointed with their offerings, I think I'm doing something right!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I consider myself too new to this to start a brew day thread

I respectfully disagree :-)

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Sadly my hops still haven't arrived in the post. A cargo ship came in last night, so hopefully my huge 200g packet should be on it.
The joys of living on an Island!
If they don't arrive I'll have to do plan B, which is Sorachi Ace and maybe lemon peel (as Samale did a while back).

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Still no hop delivery, how I envy the quick UK post, or the ability to go to a HB shop.
So 25g of Sorachi Ace has just gone in as a hop teabag affair.
I'll zest a lemon this evening (if the shops have any ) and sanitize/steep in vodka overnight to add tomorrow.

The Wai-iti will have to Wait-i for another batch!