Overview of proposed new brewery

[Northern Brewer]

Its missing a few taps and things but most important things are covered - I hope! Comments welcome as its the first time I have thought about going beyond 40 pints.
Cheers
NB

 

[graysalchemy]

Hi Northern brewer.

The only glaring error I can see is that your chiller in the copper should be at the top to allow convection currents and quicker chilling.

Also I would be tempted to underlet you mash to allow better mixing of grist and liquor.

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

Looks complicated....... Did I really build one of those??

BB

 

[Aleman]

Apart from the HLT and FV I'd fill all vessels from the bottom.

 

[Cussword]

I have to agree, you should underlet :thumb: It's better to find these thing's out at the beginning. Learn from others wisdom/mistakes :thumb
:ie. Aleman's wisdom, my mistakes :lol:

 

[Vossy1]

Just a quicky, you guys who underlet, have you never had any 'issues' with it :hmm:
I tried it twice and both times the incoming water formed a solid cake with the bottom few inches of malt, which then pushed all the other malt towards the top of the tun. If I hadn't of been there to see it, the malt would have been all over the floor. The next problem was on mixing I had cricket ball sized malt clumps, I thought never again

 

[Vossy1]

Looking at the diagram a few things spring to mind.

HLT, you may be better off putting the PT100 at the lowest point you intend to use. I put mine half way up a 100ltr pot and then realised in the future I will be doing brews which only require 30ltr of sparge liquor Naturally you really need to be pumping the liquor around the HLT to avoid thermoclines in the water.

Tun PT100 at HE return exit into tun.

Drain valves at the lowest points of all pipework if rigid.

The PT100 in the copper, why not make it roving so you can use it to double check the mash temp, use it to check the grain temp pre doughing in, use it to check pitching temps etc.

 

[Northern Brewer]

Thanks for the replies guys - here's a summary of advice

Chiller in the copper should be at the top to allow convection currents and quicker chilling.
Underlet yourmash to allow better mixing of grist and liquor.
Underlet the HLT feed to the mash tun
Tun PT100 at HE return exit into tun
HLT PT100 at the lowest point you intend to use.
Preferably pumped liquor aroud HLT to get more accurate temp measurement
Drain valves at the lowest points of all pipework if rigid.
Possibly a roving PT100 in the copper so it can be used to doublecheck the mash temp etc.
I forgot that I will be using a plate heat exchanger however the principal is the same.

I get the heat exchanger but need to look at underbacks and how to get the recirculated wort/liquor from the heat exhanger back into the mash tune without disturbing the grain bed.

I'll redraw the diagram when I get chance and try again!

Cheers
NB

 

[Vossy1]

how to get the recirculated wort/liquor from the heat exhanger back into the mash tune without disturbing the grain bed

nice

 

[adeybambam]

I always thought the idea was to avoid any aeration on the hot side and only aerate once cooled. Surely the aerator linked to is designed to do exactly the opposite? Just a bit confused - is hot side aeration not an issue?

 

[graysalchemy]

Hot side aeration isn't as big an issue as are friends on the other side of the pond make out.

 

[Vossy1]

I always thought the idea was to avoid any aeration on the hot side and only aerate once cooled. Surely the aerator linked to is designed to do exactly the opposite? Just a bit confused - is hot side aeration not an issue?

The aerator above is not being used as an aerator, more a spreader, look at the picture, do you see any bubbles/foam. It rests just on the surface thus no agitation/O2 introduction. I wouldn't worry too much about HSA anyway, with good brewing practice it wouldn't be a concern, and also as per G's comment. A little thinking 'outside the box', using something intended for one purpose for another :thumb: The third photo is another 'return' option I've used...all food for thought.

 

[Northern Brewer]

I think I have taken into account all the advice in the following diagram except adding drains at lowest points, I'll do that once I start plumbing it. There may be a few too many pumps for my wallet so will make some dual use however just want to get the functionality right first.

 

[Vossy1]

There may be a few too many pumps for my wallet so will make some dual use

It might be worth considering using hose instead of rigid pipework, for everything but the HE circuit. As a rule of thumb I'd put the pumps as low as possible.
Looking at your diagram there's something that's confusing me, why use an underback with a HERMS. As far as I'm aware most folk use an underback for running of to the copper after the mash has ended.

A herms is designed to run continuously to maintain the temp, or increase it, decrease it also. By stopping and starting the demand based on the underback your surely creating a situation whereby the recirc in the pipework/UB is cooling at any point where there's no flow. The Mash tun pid then turns the pump on when the mash temp needs changing, and the first thing that happens is that the HE bath is playing catch up and pumping cooler runnings back into the mash until it's up to temp....I don't see the point :wha:

 

[Springer]

Lots of comments coming in, I was thinking along the same lines as V, there are lots of ways of doing it, but looks a bit complicated to me as BB mentioned
Not studied your design in great detail, but how do you get the hot water out of the HLT, without putting cold in , or is that four pumps I count :)
Everyone to their own but here is a pic of my set up, as I said many ways of doing it.
It is all loose piped with quick release fitting. One pump, hoses are moved as required, for brewing and cleaning.
For cleaning, very important as we all know, water goes into mash tun and can be pumped to boiler. Cooler is a counter flow device, this and the HE can be linked together and cleaner and rinse pumped thought to pair.
A pump by-pass is essential to control flow rate.

Happy designing and brewing
Nice drawing by the way.

S

 

[Northern Brewer]

Thanks Springer and Vossy

More than happy to do away with the underback, however I've read on the forum that you don't particularly want the pump sucking from the MT and my interpretation was that the underback avoided this. I may have go that wrong, if there's and easier way I'm all ears :)

I haven't added any taps to the diagram hence the confusion about getting liquor out of the HLT with adding cold water - there's a tap on the cold fill. I'll stick some taps on.

I added a pump to the HLT to avoid the stratification mentioned however as mentioned with quick connectors and hose the actual pump count can be reduced. I guess the pump and stritification depends on how purist/exact you want to be - an occasional stir with a spoon while having a beer may be a pragmatic solution :drink:

Cleaning is important, I hate that bit most about making beer so the easier it is the better. Once I get the overall system functions about right I'll turn the logical into a physical one with the actual number of pumps, connectors etc.

Cheers
NB

 

[BrewDan]

I want one!!

 

[Springer]

:? but now solved, I see an extra pump appeared from version one, :hmm: .
Nothing wrong with a pump, apart from £60+ out of the wallet, I'm a big spoon man. :lol:
Yes if you pump to hard you end up with a set mash, :evil: , did it last week. still :evil:, by using the pump by-pass you can stop the pump pulling at the bed.
On the brew last week a PT100 failed, which was a pain especially after the set mash, remember the more complicated it is the more there is to go wrong .
S

 

[Northern Brewer]

Cheers Springer
I'll replace the underback with the pump bypass idea - simpler is better! I may buy a couple more spoons
Regards
NB

 

[Aleman]

The pump I have on mine to reduce stratification also serves as the Mash Liquor transfer and sparge pump. Yes a big spoon is also a quick and simple solution . . . but how would you rig that on a timer to come on while you are still tucked up in bed :hmm: :hmm: