Pump that wort

[canairyman]

Ok so I’ve just purchased a Klarstein 35ltr Mash Kettle
Now I’m reading in various place it really helps if you get yourself a separate pump to go with this so you can recirculate.
Firstly!! Is this really necessary and does it help that much?
Secondly! Does anyone have a link/s as to where to get these???

 

[MashBag]

To my mind a pump is only necessary if you are looking to automate your mashing. If you doing it manually no need. You will also save yourself the frustration of extra valves, pipes, washing up and bung up incidents

 

[Begbie]

This was discussed just last week. I provided details of the pump that I bought for my Klarstein Maischfest. Use the search function for the word 'Klarstein' and you'll see it.

 

[Begbie]

Here's the post on the thread:

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/is-it-worth-it.104975/post-1277473

 

[MashBag]

Good redirect.

Interestingly, there are a couple of old hands have still not bought one yet.

If you have limited budget, you would make better beer with a good book.
People often buy the gear but dont know how to fly it.

All you really need is a good digital boiler, a syphon hose and a capper. Everything else is probably already in the kitchen

 

[JockyBrewer]

You don't need a pump at all. There's really no need to recirculate the mash - it doesn't make your beer better.

For me the process is: Heat water, stir grains in to water, leave it for 30-120 minutes.

Normally at the end of the mash I'll slowly run out 2-4 litres and gently put it back on the top of the mash just to filter out any flour that might catch on the boiler element.

Try it simple style, then decide if a pump will help.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Think recirculation does make better beer and is an essential and important part of brewing....it sets the grain bed ahead of sparge and filters out grain husks and flour which if they get into the boil and on into fermentation can impart compounds into the wort that can impact beer clarity, head retention and sometimes tannin flavours, so it is definitely a worthwhile thing to do and most if not all big pro breweries will do it even if its not throughout the mash and just a vorlauf at the end of the mash. But continual recalculation improves efficiency, which even though it might not impact flavour it certainly impacts the economics of beer making, and it improves the temperature profile through the mash volume, especially in long and thin shaped mash tuns, which will definitely impact the beer. There is literally zero downsides to recirculation and no upsides to not doing it.

To reduce brewing beer to one or two aspects is a bit simplistic. All aspects of brewing beer have an impact and a decent brewer will pay attention to all aspects and seek to improve in all those aspects as your final procuct is only as good as the process that your employ. brewing beer is a process just like any other, forget the craft nonsense. Its success, like all process wether you're making beer, bread, car parts or chemical products, depends people, process, materials, tools/equipment and measurement. Deficiencies in any one of these areas will have a final impact on the final product wether it be in quality or consistency and your final product will only be as good as the weakest of these elements. So focusing on your equipment and process and upgrading your equipment and process is never a bad thing just as it isn't focussing on any other of these aspects...wether or not it is the limiting factor in your overall process will determine if that one change makes an impact on the final product.

 

[Stu]

You don't need a pump at all. There's really no need to recirculate the mash - it doesn't make your beer better.

For me the process is: Heat water, stir grains in to water, leave it for 30-120 minutes.

Normally at the end of the mash I'll slowly run out 2-4 litres and gently put it back on the top of the mash just to filter out any flour that might catch on the boiler element.

Try it simple style, then decide if a pump will help.

The thing I've noticed with the Klarstein is that the thermostat is on the bottom and with the bin being in place, gets blocked and isn't accurate.

By pumping the wort about during mashing, it keeps it moving and therefore the thermostat doesn't overcook the wort.
Personally, I do it by opening the vale and recirculating by hand every few minutes, but I'm toying with a pump.

I'm with you that it doesn't make the beer better. However the different in price of an all-in-one that has a pump and the Klarstein with a cheapy Amazon one is about £300.

 

[Begbie]

I find that my mash temp is now much more stable using the pump to recirculate. The heating element only kicks in a couple of times during the one hour mash compared to several times without the pump. I also find that the wort is much clearer and, maybe its a coincidence, but I'm hitting my targets consistently these days.

 

[MashBag]

Think recirculation does make better beer and is an essential and important part of brewing

Nope. Good process makes good beer.
If your process needs a pump then yes it makes good beer.
Else a good process makes good beer without a pump.

 

[jof]

Nope. Good process makes good beer.
If your process needs a pump then yes it makes good beer.
Else a good process makes good beer without a pump.

Yes, some of us are quite proficient with the use of the tap & jug

 

[hoppyscotty]

Nope. Good process makes good beer.
If your process needs a pump then yes it makes good beer.
Else a good process makes good beer without a pump.

There are many many processes required to make beer that all work together to produce the end product and recirculation is a process...the pump is a tool/piece of equipment required to enable recirculation.

Depends on your kit to a certain extent. With a small AIO you will produce a different beer if you don't recurculate - not necessarily a spoiled or undrinkable beer, but not the beer you set out to brew or intended by the recipe - I know from experience. These vessels are tall and thin and heat distribution isn't great as they're heated from the bottom and you get massive temperature swings as you have areas of stagnating wort at the bottom of the vessel that overheat and start to denature enzymes during the mash and possibly even risk pulling tannins out so you need overflow and record to manage mash temps...and I think we'd all agree that mash temperature is a pretty vital constituent of the process. If you overheat wort then there are impacts on the beer. The very reason you do decoction mashes for certain beers - if you don't do the decoction it's not the same beer all else being equal, its the same thing in reverse. These things matter.

If you had a very well insulated vessel like a cool box, then you can achieve good temp control as the vessel will lose maybe one degree over a 60 minute mash, but you cant do a mash-out and recalculation will always improve efficiency (not really important to the homebrewer I know) as the flow of wort through the grain will improve the flushing of sugars from the husks, I think something like the volume of wort to flow through the grist 4 or 5 times through the course of the mash is optimal, I'm sure I've read somewhere.

 

[MashBag]

With a small AIO you will

... You will find there are 2 main designs and 2 if not 3 ways* of running them. Giving you 6 or more options.

After that you have different add ons and different steps.

I don't think recirculation does necessarily make better beer, neither is it essential or important part of brewing...the brewer with his knowledge and choices make good beer.

*It only dawned on me quite recently that all owners of AIO don't necessarily use them in the same way. Tbh it might make an interesting poll.

@hoppyscotty i am NOT trying to offend, this subject has been forefront in my mind recently with an aoi build I have in progress.

Edit: key word added.

 

[Twostage]

Timely thread. I was watching a Malt Miller video yesterday and they did a manual lauter followed by a sparge. I've recently been thinking about doing full volume mashes with no sparge on my BrewZilla. Being from Yorkshire I'm concerned I'd be losing fermentables by not flushing them out with a sparge. So I'd been thinking about lifting the grain pipe and re-circulating through it. Would that make a material difference ?

 

[hoppyscotty]

@MashBag not sure if you are trying to offend or not trying to offend, but in any case I'm not offended. Anyone who knows me offence is a sentiment I don't possess. I'm not trying to be offensive just trying to put stuff out there for others to take from it what they will. And ultimately we're talking beer here. Not as if we're trying to solve world poverty or global conflicts. That would be far easier

@Twostage I think the only thing you're potentially losing by doing a full volume mash is a bit of efficiency. Its nice to have good efficiency, but ultimately its an economic thing to get more out of the same grain so more of a concern for either a commercial set up, or a home brewer trying to squeeze out as much volume out of their system as they can, but its only worth a matter of a few pence of grain on the homebrew scale....not sure if Yorkshire men are THAT penny pinching....? The challenge you will have with the brewzilla is as I've highlighted, maintaining a consistent mash temperature through the mash and preventing any overheating of the wort in the bottom space under the malt pipe and it is here I think recirculation and overflow is useful, and I'd argue even essential.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Certainly if you’re going to heat the mash you will need to recirculate. Same if you want to step mash.

As an alternative you could just wrap up the klarstein in an old duvet/sleeping bag during the mash.

 

[Twostage]

@MashBag not sure if you are trying to offend or not trying to offend, but in any case I'm not offended. Anyone who knows me offence is a sentiment I don't possess. I'm not trying to be offensive just trying to put stuff out there for others to take from it what they will. And ultimately we're talking beer here. Not as if we're trying to solve world poverty or global conflicts. That would be far easier

@Twostage I think the only thing you're potentially losing by doing a full volume mash is a bit of efficiency. Its nice to have good efficiency, but ultimately its an economic thing to get more out of the same grain so more of a concern for either a commercial set up, or a home brewer trying to squeeze out as much volume out of their system as they can, but its only worth a matter of a few pence of grain on the homebrew scale....not sure if Yorkshire men are THAT penny pinching....? The challenge you will have with the brewzilla is as I've highlighted, maintaining a consistent mash temperature through the mash and preventing any overheating of the wort in the bottom space under the malt pipe and it is here I think recirculation and overflow is useful, and I'd argue even essential.

I’ve got mash temp and recirculation nailed with my BZ (tempts fate for the next brew). Although it goes against the grain (see what I did there ) I think I’ll do a full volume, no sparge let it drip for a bit next time. I’ve got lots of nearly empty bags of various grain that I could just chuck in for the extra half point.

 

[MashBag]

Timely thread. I was watching a Malt Miller video yesterday and they did a manual lauter followed by a sparge. I've recently been thinking about doing full volume mashes with no sparge on my BrewZilla. Being from Yorkshire I'm concerned I'd be losing fermentables by not flushing them out with a sparge. So I'd been thinking about lifting the grain pipe and re-circulating through it. Would that make a material difference ?

I tried it years ago. Yeah it does about 4 grains worth . I am full volume all the way.

 

[MashBag]

trying to offend or not trying to offend,

Phew. My bad. The key word "not" was missing.
Absolutely.. Tis beer.

 

[Begbie]

Certainly if you’re going to heat the mash you will need to recirculate. Same if you want to step mash.

As an alternative you could just wrap up the klarstein in an old duvet/sleeping bag during the mash.

Yes, that's something else I did that I think helps with my Klarstein's temperature stability - a jacket. Thanks for reminding me @JockyBrewer!

Doc Anna inspired me to attempt creating my own jacket from a yoga mat. I'm very pleased with how it turned out - managed to correctly position and cut all the holes and slots for the handles, clips and outlet nozzle. So yeah, that insulation no doubt helps a lot too.

Or, for simplicity, as jocky says, wrap it up.