Real Ale (non carbonated) method

[Chiplover]

Think I must have read every thread that exists now! I’m thinking a barrel for long term storage and either a co2 setup or transfer to polypin bags for usage on the pump to avoid worries of replacing with the correct amount of co2

 

[peebee]

The "intermediary" approach described in my "tombstone" (or novelette depending on your opinion) linked in this thread (#6). Best of all worlds? Though I don't do it and the guy I nicked the idea from (@Dads_Ale) abandoned it (that's not to say it's a bad idea).

 

[CD]

Think I must have read every thread that exists now! I’m thinking a barrel for long term storage and either a co2 setup or transfer to polypin bags for usage on the pump to avoid worries of replacing with the correct amount of co2

Have you read the 'Draught Ale' thread I started?

 

[Chiplover]

Have you read the 'Draught Ale' thread I started?

I just have thanks for the recommendation. I’ve seen posts by foxy collecting co2 and thought it a fantastic idea, my only gripe is how I would connect the collecting vessel to my barrel with easily obtainable parts. That would be my preferred method

 

[Chiplover]

The "intermediary" approach described in my "tombstone" (or novelette depending on your opinion) linked in this thread (#6). Best of all worlds? Though I don't do it and the guy I nicked the idea from (@Dads_Ale) abandoned it (that's not to say it's a bad idea).

I’ve read your excellent guide a few times. Every time I think I know what to do I see another thread that makes me rethink everything!

 

[CD]

Think I must have read every thread that exists now! I’m thinking a barrel for long term storage and either a co2 setup or transfer to polypin bags for usage on the pump to avoid worries of replacing with the correct amount of co2

Why don’t you just use a King Keg pressure barrel and Hambleton Bard CO2 system with S30 cylinder, all off the shelf. Get the pressure gauge that fits the cap as well, then if you serve your beer with under 5psi top pressure, it’s not far away from pub Draught. If it still seems gassy to you, simply tip it from your glass into a jug, wait a couple of minutes, and return it. Or have you already lashed out on a beer engine?

 

[Chiplover]

Why don’t you just use a King Keg pressure barrel and Hambleton Bard CO2 system with S30 cylinder, all off the shelf. Get the pressure gauge that fits the cap as well, then if you serve your beer with under 5psi top pressure, it’s not far away from pub Draught. If it still seems gassy to you, simply tip it from your glass into a jug, wait a couple of minutes, and return it. Or have you already lashed out on a beer engine?

Yes the lashing out / impulse buy is done. I’m thinking of storing in a barrel but modifying the cap to take a line into collapsing container to act as a reservoir of co2. Other than that I think polypin, unless the co2 with breather makes more sense

 

[CD]

Yes the lashing out / impulse buy is done. I’m thinking of storing in a barrel but modifying the cap to take a line into collapsing container to act as a reservoir of co2. Other than that I think polypin, unless the co2 with breather makes more sense

A foil balloon, with or without a picture of Noddy on it, makes a perfect collapsible CO2 reservoir, as I can attest having been using the system for 9 years now. Whatever system you chose, collapsible bags of whatever, you must be able to add CO2 from an external source, as the amount you collect from the secondary fermentation can vary, and is seldom enough to dispense more than a couple of gallons.

There is nothing wrong with using a cask breather, apart from the cost and hassle of obtaining a pub gas bottle and regulator, and again I can attest to that as I used that method from 1987 to 1985, when my hand pump gave up the ghost.

 

[Chiplover]

A foil balloon, with or without a picture of Noddy on it, makes a perfect collapsible CO2 reservoir, as I can attest having been using the system for 9 years now. Whatever system you chose, collapsible bags of whatever, you must be able to add CO2 from an external source, as the amount you collect from the secondary fermentation can vary, and is seldom enough to dispense more than a couple of gallons.

There is nothing wrong with using a cask breather, apart from the cost and hassle of obtaining a pub gas bottle and regulator, and again I can attest to that as I used that method from 1987 to 1985, when my hand pump gave up the ghost.

That makes sense thanks! What fittings did you connect the balloon with?
Was just wondering if I put 10l ale into a 20l barrel would that in effect create a chamber with enough free headspace without external contamination

 

[CD]

I had a special fitting made by a precision engineer pal of mine, which fitted to the earlier type of Hambleton Bard injection fitting – the one with the blow-off band visible, not behind a spacer. The small diameter yellow tube I got from the toy shop where I bought the balloon, as they used it to inflate them, but think they use a simpler method now.

I had ten made up, and have supplied around 6 to forum members, though not sure if any got around to using them. I’m now out of the essential yellow tubing, which is a push fit into the brass fitting, and goes around 8” into the balloon (past a plastic one-way valve device), otherwise I could let you have one.

Part filling a PB is a bad idea, as coming into contact with air is the last thing you want.

 

[Chiplover]

I had a special fitting made by a precision engineer pal of mine, which fitted to the earlier type of Hambleton Bard injection fitting – the one with the blow-off band visible, not behind a spacer. The small diameter yellow tube I got from the toy shop where I bought the balloon, as they used it to inflate them, but think they use a simpler method now.

View attachment 30131

I had ten made up, and have supplied around 6 to forum members, though not sure if any got around to using them. I’m now out of the essential yellow tubing, which is a push fit into the brass fitting, and goes around 8” into the balloon (past a plastic one-way valve device), otherwise I could let you have one.

Part filling a PB is a bad idea, as coming into contact with air is the last thing you want.

Thanks for all your advice, this is an excellent community

 

[Chris17]

The analogy I use to explain this:

Cream is lighter than coffee. If you're careful you can float the cream on the coffee. Voila, "Irish" coffee.

Now stir the cream into the coffee. Wait for the cream to separate out on the top again.

I'll come back in a few days to see how you got on.


The other argument is air is about 0.35-0.40% carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is heavier than the other gases in air. So CO2 sinks and that is why there is no such thing as trees And if you lie down on a beach by the seaside you suffocate



Seriously though. For a well thought out (well I think so!) way of getting homebrewed "Real Ale" I wrote this up: (Oh Gawd, not that again!). It's on my Google drive 'cos it is too big to post on this site. Not for the (CO2) squeamish.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I’m currently trying to find a way to replicate cask/‘real’ ale on my co2 corny keg set up and stumbled upon this, very informative! I’m just struggling to understand it fully though.

Essentially, the idea is to prime in the keg, and then store and serve at a very low pressure using an LPG regulator. Is this correct? When it comes to ‘venting’ is the extra equipment absolutely necessary or could I just periodically release the pressure on the keg using the pressure release valve? I understand this might lead to a bit more CO2 being used but surely this would be a negligible amount? Finally, if you’re serving at this low a pressure, doesn’t it take forever to pour a pint? Sorry if these are silly questions, I’ve only just started kegging, so still trying to get a grasp of it all!

 

[Pennine]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I’m currently trying to find a way to replicate cask/‘real’ ale on my co2 corny keg set up and stumbled upon this, very informative! I’m just struggling to understand it fully though.

Essentially, the idea is to prime in the keg, and then store and serve at a very low pressure using an LPG regulator. Is this correct? When it comes to ‘venting’ is the extra equipment absolutely necessary or could I just periodically release the pressure on the keg using the pressure release valve? I understand this might lead to a bit more CO2 being used but surely this would be a negligible amount? Finally, if you’re serving at this low a pressure, doesn’t it take forever to pour a pint? Sorry if these are silly questions, I’ve only just started kegging, so still trying to get a grasp of it all!

Funny thread I had been thinking about this too. I am planning on fermenting in a keg and then naturally femerment to cask levels of carbonation initially. Once the flow drops too low I will top off with CO2. I guess technically its not real ale but likely better.

I think your plan should work.

 

[peebee]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I’m currently trying to find a way to replicate cask/‘real’ ale on my co2 corny keg set up and stumbled upon this, very informative! I’m just struggling to understand it fully though.

Essentially, the idea is to prime in the keg, and then store and serve at a very low pressure using an LPG regulator. Is this correct? When it comes to ‘venting’ is the extra equipment absolutely necessary or could I just periodically release the pressure on the keg using the pressure release valve? I understand this might lead to a bit more CO2 being used but surely this would be a negligible amount? Finally, if you’re serving at this low a pressure, doesn’t it take forever to pour a pint? Sorry if these are silly questions, I’ve only just started kegging, so still trying to get a grasp of it all!

Careful! You appear to be referring to my methods and as there seems to be endless ways of achieving this objective (home-brew as cask-style beer) you will wind up the others whose methods you are not referring too! Though based on who can scribble down the longest explanation (waffle) of what their method attempts to achieve: I win!

Finding those variable LPG regulators from Clesse was the key component behind my method: No dreadful POL adapter common on LPG regulators (all BSP threaded ports) and works up to 2PSI (4PSI for some rarer versions) which is ideal for cask beer (the non-variable 37mbar units are not much better than "breathers"). But you need a CO2 setup (including a "primary", or ordinary cylinder, regulator to step the cylinder pressure down before feeding it to the LPG regulator).

You can get away with just using the pressure relief valve for "venting", but it's a pain if the beer is vastly over-pressurised (7+PSI); having to repeatedly come back to it and release some more, etc. But a low-pressure gauge and bubble-counter (with needle valve) isn't a lot of equipment.

My setup was designed to work with hand-pumps. For taps you'll need them low or directly attached to the keg or there won't be enough pressure to lift the beer up to the tap. And you may need to drop the pressure to 1PSI or less (50-75mbar) - the hand-pump strips a lot of excess gas out through turbulence and creates the head, whereas free-flow taps may produce little or no head (and still be "fizzy"). There's no delay pouring at such low pressure because the flow is "full-bore"; there's no need to restrict it.