Sessionable Table Beer

Discussion in 'General Recipe Discussion' started by BrannBrew, Feb 5, 2019.

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  1. Feb 5, 2019 #1

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    Damo Brann

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    After having 1 too many mid strength (5.5% beers) over the weekend I'm certainly thinking about making a more session/table beer. Current plan is around 3%. I've yet to listen to basic brewing's podcast on the subject of low beers but have read Mad Fermenterlists recipes and points on it.
    The following is basic outline
    STATS:
    Original Gravity: 1.033
    Final Gravity: 1.008
    ABV (standard): 3.23%
    IBU (tinseth): 35.88
    SRM (morey): 3.81
    Mash pH: 5.65

    FERMENTABLES:
    800 g - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (25.8%)
    350 g - American - Rye (11.3%)
    200 g - American - Munich - Light 10L (6.5%)
    800 g - United Kingdom - Golden Promise (25.8%)
    500 g - United Kingdom - Malted Naked Oats (16.1%)
    250 g - Lactose (Milk Sugar) - (late addition) (8.1%)
    200 g - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (6.5%)

    HOPS:
    15 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 9.2
    10 g - Vic Secret, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 8.64
    21 g - Engima, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.4, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 18.04
    42 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 0 min
    41 g - Vic Secret, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
    41 g - Enigma, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.4, Use: Boil for 0 min
    15 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
    15 g - Vic Secret, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.5, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
    15 g - Engima, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.4, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
    20 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
    20 g - Vic Secret, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.5, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
    20 g - Enigma, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.4, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

    Still struggling with a name, and abit uncertain if the malt bill will provide enough backbone.
     
  2. Feb 5, 2019 #2

    Cwrw666

    Cwrw666

    Cwrw666

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    You could call it `Too many hops'.
     
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  3. Feb 5, 2019 #3

    Ben034

    Ben034

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    FG of 1.008 seems a bit low given the addition of lactose? Is this a software prediction?
     
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  4. Feb 5, 2019 #4

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    Damo Brann

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    Yes it's been prodicted by brewersfriend
     
  5. Feb 5, 2019 #5

    Ghillie

    Ghillie

    Ghillie

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    Ben is right, add the lactose post fermentation if you want actually want to hit ~1.008.

    IMO, you're polishing a turd by trying to introduce body into a low ABV pale beer. My experience of keto and low ABV beers has been a poor compromise at best. They are thin and dry. "Alcohol free" beers as also the same in terms of being a poor compromise, I'd rather have a glass of orange juice. If you don't want to get hammered, just drink less:laugh8: Seems like you're almost opting for quantity over quality?

    I find it confusing why you've failed to mention mash temperature which is arguably the most critical parameter for determining body...
     
  6. Feb 5, 2019 #6

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    Damo Brann

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    Sorry I only quickly copied the 'ingredients' mash temp 68c for 40min.
     
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  7. Feb 5, 2019 #7

    Ghillie

    Ghillie

    Ghillie

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    68C is a good temp for a full bodied beer. But getting to 1.008 from that mash temperature is extremely optimistic. That's without considering the lactose too.
     
  8. Feb 5, 2019 #8

    Ben034

    Ben034

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    I would have thought with the lactose and 68c mash temp (depending on yeast but assuming your using something like US-05) you would be looking at more like 1012-1014 (as a guess) for the FG.

    I think getting a lower ABV beer right is a skill whether it's a mild (which I don't have much experience with) or a hoppy beer (in this area, Kernel Table Beer at 3% is a nice example).

    I would maybe consider swapping out the Munich with oats as the Marris otter should be good on its own and oats will add some more body. Also, try to carb to a lower level than usual as the fizz can make the beer taste "thinner."

    Also, I've never tried lactose in this type of beer but if using, I would start with a small amount or consider removing. Others may have had success with this though, so maybe can advise accordingly.
     
  9. Feb 5, 2019 #9

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    Damo Brann

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    Thanks Ben. I was just thinking about dropping the lactose, I only included it as I found it in the bread bin in the garage pegged up. But was having second thoughts as it's been opened since November, just clipped closed using one of those sandwitch clips.

    In CAMRA's home brewing essential book there is a recipe for 3.8% which I thought to use the basic recipe and change the hops but wanted this time to try to create something of my own as I've done 2 brews out the book recently.
    I was going to use us-05 and had good success recently reaching around 90% AA. Although I obviously wouldn't get that high with mashing hotter.
     
  10. Feb 5, 2019 #10

    Sadfield

    Sadfield

    Sadfield

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    Although this would be counterproductive in brewing a lower alcohol brew. Your aim is not to convert sugar to alcohol. US05 should attenuate around the low 80s, at 90% I would suspect you are over pitching.

    3% isn't that low, I feel you are over thinking this. Brew one of you normal recipes at a slightly lower OG, mashing a couple of degrees warmer and swap US05 for a more flavoursome yeast that attenuates less.

    I do find Americans and their phrase session beers amusing, when the British have been brewing 3-4% beers for centuries.

    "A strong classic ale with a golden amber colour. It has a scent of caramel, light fruits and roasted malt hints."

    Strong! This is how Timothy Taylor describe Landlord, at a massive 4.3%.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  11. Feb 5, 2019 #11

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    Damo Brann

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    I probably have over thought this. I often do when I ponder too long on an idea.
    What yeast would you suggest would be a good replacement?
    I've looked into kernel's table beer. Sounds good, I found a byo recipe Clone I'll look into more after work and will probably end up adjusting based on that.
    After 3&1/2 years of brewing I actually don't have a staple ipa/Amber/pale ale , as I haven't been truly happy with what I've done. The only staples are my breakfast Stout, dry hopped saison and now a cream ale. I do have a pale ale of sorts but it's dry hopped with kaffer lime leaves and liked how it came out, hence why I've been trying to come up with a specific recipe
     
  12. Feb 5, 2019 #12

    Sadfield

    Sadfield

    Sadfield

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    I don't think you can go too far wrong with WLP028. Lallemand London ESB if you prefer dry. US05 isn't a poor choice if managed properly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  13. Feb 5, 2019 #13

    Ben034

    Ben034

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    As Sadfield says, a slightly higher FG should help in the pursuit of some body. There's plenty of hops in your recipe so US-05 is a good choice I think. If you have the ability to split the batch, you could compare with a more ester driven yeast and see what you prefer.
     
  14. Feb 5, 2019 #14

    Clint

    Clint

    Clint

    Hammered.....

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    My drinking buddy has mastered the art of drinking lots of low abv beer...Boddingtons.
    Get a box...you won't drink much.
    It's funny....table beer...would that have replaced water back in the day as the water wasn't drinkable?
    Why not brew a beer then liquor back in the fv to required strength?
     
  15. Feb 6, 2019 #15

    matt76

    matt76

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    Crikey Brann, that's a lot of ingredients! I can't help but look at that with my engineer's eye and think "Keep it simple" :laugh8: But hey, it's your brew to do your way athumb..

    I've not even been brewing 6 months yet so treat anything i say with due caution.....

    One obvious question I'd ask is what kind of beer do you want to brew? Seems like a session IPA to me - also, it looks like you're late hopping which I've tried, the results were awesome athumb..

    One thing i can tell you is i recently brewed a bitter mashed at 70degC to keep the ABV down. It ended up at 3.8% with a FG of 1.019 - the high mash temp means you don't have enough fermentable sugars to get a lower FG (but IIRC, brewers friend still predicted a FG around 1.010).

    Does it taste sweet? Nope - for comparison, i tried a commercial bitter afterwards (Bingham's Brickworks bitter) which I'd say was actually sweeter.

    Does it have body? Yes - I'm finding flaked barley adds body, mouthfeel and head retention in all my beers.

    I don't see any reason why you can't take these ideas and do a session IPA, or whatever else you want.

    Good luck, keep us posted athumb..
     
  16. Feb 6, 2019 #16

    ACBEV

    ACBEV

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    ashock1 flipping eck... My table beer feels hard done by compared to yours and I thought mine was complex.
     
  17. Feb 7, 2019 #17

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    BrannBrew

    Damo Brann

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    Thanks for all your points/views.
    After looking at Kernal's Table beer and the recipe for Siren Yu Lu in the Camra Essential Home Brewing book. I adjusted the malt bill and also reflected the hop schedule to match Siren's Yu Lu. Their single flameout charge has been spilt between my chosen hops to try to achieve a more rounded/melded hop flavour.

    HOME BREW RECIPE:
    Title: All creatures great or small

    Brew Method: All Grain
    Style Name: American Pale Ale
    Boil Time: 60 min
    Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
    Boil Size: 26 liters
    Boil Gravity: 1.025
    Efficiency: 70% (brew house)


    STATS:
    Original Gravity: 1.031
    Final Gravity: 1.004
    ABV (standard): 3.52%
    IBU (tinseth): 25.76
    SRM (morey): 5.69
    Mash pH: 5.46

    FERMENTABLES:
    2.4 kg - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (79.7%)
    310 g - American - Vienna (10.3%)
    190 g - Belgian - Aromatic (6.3%)
    113 g - Flaked Oats (3.8%)

    HOPS:
    5 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 2.35
    10 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 6.02
    10 g - Enigma, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 7.67
    10 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 6.85
    10 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Boil for 0 min
    20 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 0 min
    10 g - Enigma, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Boil for 0 min
    10 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days, IBU: 2.87
    20 g - Engima, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.4, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
    20 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
    25 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

    MASH GUIDELINES:
    1) Infusion, Temp: 68 C, Time: 40 min, Amount: 12 L
    2) Sparge, Temp: 75 C, Time: 15 min, Amount: 15 L
    Starting Mash Thickness: 4.5 L/kg

    OTHER INGREDIENTS:
    4 g - Calcium Chloride, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
    3 g - Epsom Salt, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
    5 g - Gypsum, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

    YEAST:
    Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
    Starter: No
    Form: Liquid
    Attenuation (custom): 87%
    Flocculation: High
    Optimum Temp: 17.78 - 23.33 C
    Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)
     
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  18. Feb 7, 2019 #18

    Clint

    Clint

    Clint

    Hammered.....

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    Out of curiosity I've just googled table beer ..."typically under 3% alcohol".
     

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