The Mixed Fermentation Thread

[Sadfield]

You mean without a starter?

No i meant without adding any other yeast first.

There's an interesting point. Does pitch rate mater with such a blend? Will the balance of yeast to bacteria change? Surely making a starter will only raise the Saccharomyces cell count in the short term? I believe, Brettanomyces pitch rate is less important, given the time they take to ferment.

I wonder what the cell count is when wort is pitched into a barrel or by inoculated in a coolship?

 

[strange-steve]

No i meant without adding any other yeast first.

Ah right. I think from memory Jamil suggests pitching some US05 first if you want something a little milder and pitching just the Roeselare for more sourness

There's an interesting point. Does pitch rate mater with such a blend? Will the balance of yeast to bacteria change? Surely making a starter will only raise the Saccharomyces cell count in the short term? I believe, Brettanomyces pitch rate is less important, given the time they take to ferment.

I wonder what the cell count is when wort is pitched into a barrel or by inoculated in a coolship?

I believe the recommendation for these blends is not to do a starter but to use multiple packs, though I have a feeling you're right, that the pitch rate is less important.

 

[BeerCat]

Well being as its my first proper sour as may as well see what happens. Pack was manufactured last month so will be only using 1.

 

[strange-steve]

Well being as its my first proper sour as may as well see what happens. Pack was manufactured last month so will be only using 1.

Yeah I'll only be using 1 pack, as above I don't think pitch rate is quite as crucial with these long term mixed fermentation beers.

Edit: Just checked the recipe in BCS and it's just one yeast pack with no starter.

 

[BeerCat]

Yeah I'll only be using 1 pack, as above I don't think pitch rate is quite as crucial with these long term mixed fermentation beers.

Edit: Just checked the recipe in BCS and it's just one yeast pack with no starter.

As it has 18 months to clear i am going to do no chill. Should save some time.

 

[strange-steve]

@BeerCat what's your experience with raw ales, I know you've made a few? I was thinking of making my Berliner raw, anything I should know?

 

[BeerCat]

@BeerCat what's your experience with raw ales, I know you've made a few? I was thinking of making my Berliner raw, anything I should know?

Make sure you pasteurise the wort by holding it at 75c for 20m. I recirculate during this time to make sure there are no cold spots. Also a good time to steep hops. You might want to add finings if you want a clear beer. I do with mine if it's style appropriate.

 

[strange-steve]

Make sure you pasteurise the wort by holding it at 75c for 20m. I recirculate during this time to make sure there are no cold spots. Also a good time to steep hops. You might want to add finings if you want a clear beer. I do with mine if it's style appropriate.

Will do thanks. Have you noticed any unusual/off flavours from doing raw?

 

[strange-steve]

Well I started my lemon and lime weisse today and it's kettle souring right now (hopefully). Actually the Grainfather makes kettle souring a breeze.

I mashed and sparged as normal, brought to a quick 1 min boil to pasteurise, chilled to 38°c, pre-soured to pH 4.4 with 10ml of lactic acid and chucked in 8 L. plantarum capsules along with the dregs from a bottle of lambic. I then covered the top of the wort with a few layers of clingfilm, put the lid on and set the temperature to maintain 38°. Will check for pH drop in the morning.

 

[BeerCat]

Will do thanks. Have you noticed any unusual/off flavours from doing raw?

No off flavours or anything weird.

 

[strange-steve]

Well 12 hours in and the pH hasn't budged as yet

 

[Sadfield]

Would it though? 4.4pH is pretty far down a logarithmic scale. Not enough cell multiplication to make an impact, yet?

 

[strange-steve]

Would it though? 4.4pH is pretty far down a logarithmic scale. Not enough cell multiplication to make an impact, yet?

Honestly I have no idea, in the past I've just done it by taste so this is my first time measuring pH. You're probably right, I'm just impatient.

 

[Sadfield]

Yeah, I've nothing to go off, as I've never monitored pH over time, just stuck it in a keg and left it. Watching with interest as to how this progresses. Fingers crossed.

 

[strange-steve]

18 hours and there's a slight drop and some definite visible activity, quite a lot of foam forming on the surface.

 

[BeerCat]

Should I expect a large krausen with roselare? What sort of water profile should I use?
I have saved a bag of rye so going to check that in. Also regarding de bittered hops how much should I use?

 

[strange-steve]

Don't know about the krausen, but for the water I would go for low sulphate, moderate alkalinity. As for the hops, how well aged are they? JZ's lambic recipe calls for 80g, but they'd need to be well aged at that amount.

 

[strange-steve]

Well 12 hours in and the pH hasn't budged as yet

OK panic over, 24 hours in and pH is now at 3.5 and tasting slightly tangy, but not sour enough yet. I don't really want to get up in the middle of the night to stop the souring so I'm hoping it won't have dropped too far by tomorrow morning.

 

[Zephyr259]

Glad it's souring for you Steve.

@BeerCat I didn't notice anything unusual with Roeselare, I fermented 24-25l in the youngs wide neck fv with the black screw top and it was fine.

 

[strange-steve]

OK panic over, 24 hours in and pH is now at 3.5 and tasting slightly tangy, but not sour enough yet. I don't really want to get up in the middle of the night to stop the souring so I'm hoping it won't have dropped too far by tomorrow morning.

Got this in the FV this morning after a quick pasteurising at 82°, with a pH of 3.2 and a lovely clean fruity sourness. The smell of lemons from it was amazing.